Minnesota Twins News & Rumors Forum
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 55

Thread: Gardenhire's next target. Is it Pinto?

  1. #21
    Senior Member All-Star Boom Boom's Avatar
    Posts
    1,086
    Like
    10
    Liked 214 Times in 100 Posts
    Pinto's in a tough situation. The Twins want him to improve defensively, but as a primary DH and only occasional catcher he's not really getting the chance to hone his craft.

    I don't want Pinto to be a DH if he can be a catcher. He needs more reps in actual games. Catching bullpen sessions and doing drills with Steiny isn't enough IMO.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Double-A
    Posts
    197
    Like
    2
    Liked 54 Times in 30 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    Pinto doesn't seem to do anything well - block, throw out runners, or frame.
    Suzuki is nothing to write home about when it comes to throwing out runners or framing either. And I find it hard to attack Pinto for struggling to catch Deduno. I'm pretty sure it'd be challenging for any catcher who didn't have experience catching a knuckleballer or someone else with no command and wild movement. I'm not sure what people expect taking a young, raw catcher and having him pretty much exclusively catch a guy who has zero idea where the ball is going to go.

  3. These 2 users like S.'s post and want to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    Hosken Bombo Disco (06-10-2014), Kevin (06-10-2014)

  4. #23
    Senior Member Double-A
    Posts
    197
    Like
    2
    Liked 54 Times in 30 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    AAA is a development league. It's pretty clear that Pinto isn't ready to catch at the ML-level everyday. Again, do those skills he needs to be successful necessarily need to be developed at the ML-level or can they be developed at AAA?

    If it was his bat that needed exposure, I'd be with you that exposure to ML pitching would help, but that his deficiencies are defensive, what he needs is games behind the plate, not exposure to elite competition.
    His bat is a big part of this discussion, so I was including that in my point of view. I can see where you're coming from though.

  5. #24
    Even though he is second in homers, if Suzuki can play near fulltime Pinto might be best getting regular time behind the plate (as well as working with future Twins starters May, Mere, Darnell et al) than sitting on the bench and maybe DHing. The question is, do we bring up Fryer just to sit, or is it Herrmann, who can do a little more, perhaps, in the field. Right now, forgive me, Pinto and Hicks would be best served in the minors.
    Joel Thingvall
    www.thingvall.com
    rosterman at www.twinscards.com

  6. This user likes Rosterman's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    stringer bell (06-10-2014)

  7. #25
    Twins News Team MVP
    Posts
    6,737
    Like
    870
    Liked 850 Times in 546 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by Rosterman View Post
    Even though he is second in homers, if Suzuki can play near fulltime Pinto might be best getting regular time behind the plate (as well as working with future Twins starters May, Mere, Darnell et al) than sitting on the bench and maybe DHing. The question is, do we bring up Fryer just to sit, or is it Herrmann, who can do a little more, perhaps, in the field. Right now, forgive me, Pinto and Hicks would be best served in the minors.
    That's about where I stand on this debate. The argument about working with Steiny was OK, but now that Morales is here, let Pinto take what he's gotten from the major league braintrust and put it to work on a daily basis in Rochester for the time being. Could Hermann's wrist injury be the only reason why Pinto is still with the Twins? FTM, anyone have a status report on when Hermann is expected back in the lineup?

    And Hicks to Roc. is a fait accompli once Fuld is back in the fold.

  8. #26
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    2,676
    Like
    306
    Liked 218 Times in 138 Posts
    I think some people aren't being that realistic on what Pinto really is. He's not an all star. He might not even be good enough to be a starter. His bat should be about what he is now, although less streaky. I suspect he can probably be a .240/.320/.430 105 OPS+ hitter, which is pretty good for a catcher. Whether or not his defense is good enough is another question.

    If the Twins think he can improve his defense while catching Correia and Deduno and working hard with Steinbach, then keep him up and keep on the path that they are on. Suzuki will eventually slow down or get traded. May and Meyer will probably replace Correia and Deduno and Pinto can catch them. If the Twins think his defense is only going to get better playing every day, send him to AAA.

    But if you think Pinto is secretly a .300/.350/.500 hitter than you're going to be disappointed. And it's not because of Gardy.

  9. This user likes gunnarthor's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    USAFChief (06-10-2014)

  10. #27
    Twins News Team MVP
    Posts
    6,737
    Like
    870
    Liked 850 Times in 546 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    I think some people aren't being that realistic on what Pinto really is. He's not an all star. He might not even be good enough to be a starter. His bat should be about what he is now, although less streaky. I suspect he can probably be a .240/.320/.430 105 OPS+ hitter, which is pretty good for a catcher. Whether or not his defense is good enough is another question.

    If the Twins think he can improve his defense while catching Correia and Deduno and working hard with Steinbach, then keep him up and keep on the path that they are on. Suzuki will eventually slow down or get traded. May and Meyer will probably replace Correia and Deduno and Pinto can catch them. If the Twins think his defense is only going to get better playing every day, send him to AAA.

    But if you think Pinto is secretly a .300/.350/.500 hitter than you're going to be disappointed. And it's not because of Gardy.
    Maybe Pinto could get an early start on catching Meyer and May this month in Rochester, then?

  11. #28
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,133
    Like
    101
    Liked 271 Times in 195 Posts
    Blog Entries
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by S. View Post
    Suzuki is nothing to write home about when it comes to throwing out runners or framing either. And I find it hard to attack Pinto for struggling to catch Deduno. I'm pretty sure it'd be challenging for any catcher who didn't have experience catching a knuckleballer or someone else with no command and wild movement. I'm not sure what people expect taking a young, raw catcher and having him pretty much exclusively catch a guy who has zero idea where the ball is going to go.
    I think we need to give framing about five years. There is so much nuance to this, the pitcher for example.

    Here is an article showing why it was wise to move Carlos Santana from catching. I just don't buy the difference between a good catchers framing and a bad one is 45 runs, or 5 wins a year. Really?

    http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/20...ana-yan-gomes/

  12. #29
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    8,112
    Twitter
    @rocketpig76
    Like
    49
    Liked 1,588 Times in 825 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    I think some people aren't being that realistic on what Pinto really is. He's not an all star. He might not even be good enough to be a starter. His bat should be about what he is now, although less streaky. I suspect he can probably be a .240/.320/.430 105 OPS+ hitter, which is pretty good for a catcher. Whether or not his defense is good enough is another question.

    If the Twins think he can improve his defense while catching Correia and Deduno and working hard with Steinbach, then keep him up and keep on the path that they are on. Suzuki will eventually slow down or get traded. May and Meyer will probably replace Correia and Deduno and Pinto can catch them. If the Twins think his defense is only going to get better playing every day, send him to AAA.

    But if you think Pinto is secretly a .300/.350/.500 hitter than you're going to be disappointed. And it's not because of Gardy.
    All of this. I like Pinto and think he has a shot at being a nice piece for the Twins for quite some time... But I don't think he's suffering by getting a decent number of PAs and learning catching from a multitude of vets in Minnesota instead of starting in Rochester every day.

    Would I like to see him get more PAs and catching starts as the season progresses? Absolutely, but I don't think it's an issue yet. If Gardy continues to bench him through the AS break, then it might be a problem.

  13. #30
    Twins News Team MVP
    Posts
    6,737
    Like
    870
    Liked 850 Times in 546 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    All of this. I like Pinto and think he has a shot at being a nice piece for the Twins for quite some time... But I don't think he's suffering by getting a decent number of PAs and learning catching from a multitude of vets in Minnesota instead of starting in Rochester every day.

    Would I like to see him get more PAs and catching starts as the season progresses? Absolutely, but I don't think it's an issue yet. If Gardy continues to bench him through the AS break, then it might be a problem.
    Yet....it seems to be getting close to yet.

    It's arguable that you could get him down in Rochester, playing every day and brushing up and applying what he's learned....meanwhile, reinvigorating his bat... so that when Suzuki has his inevitable drop-off, Pinto is ready to step into a bigger role with the Twins.

  14. #31
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    2,676
    Like
    306
    Liked 218 Times in 138 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Yet....it seems to be getting close to yet.

    It's arguable that you could get him down in Rochester, playing every day and brushing up and applying what he's learned....meanwhile, reinvigorating his bat... so that when Suzuki has his inevitable drop-off, Pinto is ready to step into a bigger role with the Twins.
    Yeah, and I would have no problem with that, either. (I might prefer May/Meyer replacing Deduno today though).

  15. #32
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    270
    Like
    19
    Liked 38 Times in 26 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2
    If you send down pinto who do u bring up? Fryer or hermann? I guess herman if u go with 13 pitchers..

  16. #33
    Twins News Team MVP
    Posts
    6,737
    Like
    870
    Liked 850 Times in 546 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    Yeah, and I would have no problem with that, either. (I might prefer May/Meyer replacing Deduno today though).
    Heh, absolutely right. (For that matter, I'd prefer May pitching "today" in Toronto instead of Correia).

  17. #34
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
    Posts
    3,987
    Like
    103
    Liked 385 Times in 200 Posts
    This thread is strange. Gardy clearly likes Pinto and has played him a good amount. However he is spot on by saying that Pinto needs to step it up either defensively (to stick at C) or offensively (to stick as a DH/part time C)
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- L. Harvey Oswald


  18. #35
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,641
    Like
    3
    Liked 321 Times in 203 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    This thread is strange. Gardy clearly likes Pinto and has played him a good amount. However he is spot on by saying that Pinto needs to step it up either defensively (to stick at C) or offensively (to stick as a DH/part time C)
    To be fair, they've kinda boxed Pinto in too. He hasn't been getting many reps at DH or C, and he is only going to get less with Morales in the fold. As I mentioned upthread, he's already been reduced to a 260 PA/season pace the last month. He's raked the last few years, but that was with 500-600 PA seasons. I imagine it's a difficult transition.

    I guess I'd frame it less that he's "Gardy's next target" but that Pinto is in a tough situation. (And Gardy & the Twins are in a tough situation too, if they want Pinto to succeed but still want to win this year.)

  19. #36
    If Pinto is on the major league roster, matching him up with Coreia and Deduno is the perfect way for him to develop his catching skills. He would get more chances per start to work on his catching, blocking, throwing skills. If he is matched up with pitchers that don't need the extra help from their catcher, he will not get better. Ideally he should be working on his defensive skills at the minor league level where the development of players should done, not at the major league level.

    As far as Pinto being the next franchise catcher, consider that if Mauer had not suffered his concussion he would still be the starting catcher for the next couple years. Pinto would have been at best a backup for the next couple of years if not still at AAA. The Twins drafted five(?) catchers a couple of years ago. If Mauer had played out his career at catcher, it would have been one of those players who would be projected as the next franchise catcher, not Pinto.

    Right now Pinto is not hitting. He is also pretty bad defensively. If he was hitting better, you could overlook his defensive lapses since he could contribute offensively. If your catcher can't hit, he should at least be able to contribute defensively. Right now, Fryer would be a better fit for this Twins team. Suzuki is playing well enough to start most of the games. Fryer is a good defensive catcher who can fill in while Pinto gets more time to develop his defensive skills at AAA. That is why Fryer is still on the 40 man roster, to provide defensive depth at catcher. It won't hurt his development to sit behind Suzuki and it will help Pinto to play more often at AAA to both work on his defense and get out of his current batting slump.

  20. #37
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    264
    Like
    15
    Liked 40 Times in 26 Posts
    Josmil Pinto has caught nearly 400 games at the major and minor league levels and is 25 years old. If he doesn't have the skill to catch at the major league level RIGHT NOW he's very unlikely to acquire it. This should be his peak age for athletic ability.

  21. This user likes DJL44's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    Kwak (06-10-2014)

  22. #38
    Member Single-A
    Posts
    98
    Like
    18
    Liked 39 Times in 26 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    I think it's pretty simple. The manager's job is to try and win games with the 25 guys at his disposal. For the time being, Suzuki is hotter than Pinto. Secondly, I don't believe that the Twins are doing Pinto and Hicks any horrible disservice by having them on the bench with the big club. That part of it is a bit overblown IMHO. They are on the cusp and they will get there. Both are the club's next best options at their positions. I can't see tossing them in there in situations where Gardy clearly thinks the other guy gives the team a better chance to win. Maybe you do that in the minors but not in the bigs. Yes we are sort of in a pennant race and there are benefits to both of them being part of that while fighting for playing time and maybe in Hick's case generating a little fire in his belly every time Santana trots out to center field.

  23. #39
    Senior Member All-Star Hosken Bombo Disco's Avatar
    Posts
    1,042
    Like
    1,637
    Liked 489 Times in 285 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    That's what AAA is for. Given that the Twins just signed Morales, we're no longer in a total rebuild mode, where you can give up games to develop players.
    When was this?

  24. These 2 users like Hosken Bombo Disco's post and want to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    jokin (06-11-2014), LaBombo (06-11-2014)

  25. #40
    Twins News Team MVP
    Posts
    6,737
    Like
    870
    Liked 850 Times in 546 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by Hosken Bombo Disco View Post
    When was this?
    Ummm, that would be....never?

  26. This user likes jokin's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    LaBombo (06-11-2014)

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
©2014 TwinsCentric, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Interested in advertising with Twins Daily? Click here.