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Thread: This team is going to win 85 games.

  1. #41
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrylos View Post
    Ok. I'll bite.

    So if they don't win 85, are you ready to join the Fire Gardy and Fire Terry bandwagon? Got to be their fault, according to your analysis, no?
    No. I think its dumb to assign an arbitrary number to the "well if they win this many games Gardy and Terry have to go, if they win this many games they stay"

    I can't see any reason why I would agree with a Gardy or even more so Ryan firing at this point. This was clearly a rebuilding year with the eye on 2015 hopefully when the youngsters are up and performing. I can't envision a scenario where I would fire Ryan, he has done a real nice job recently rebuilding this team. His free agent signings have been very solid overall and the Hughes signing alone could be the signing off the off-season in all of baseball.

    The only way I could see firing Gardy is that if the wheels completely fall off and they lose 90+ games in addition to him losing the clubhouse (Which I don't see happening)
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- L. Harvey Oswald


  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    No. I think its dumb to assign an arbitrary number to the "well if they win this many games Gardy and Terry have to go, if they win this many games they stay"

    I can't see any reason why I would agree with a Gardy or even more so Ryan firing at this point. This was clearly a rebuilding year with the eye on 2015 hopefully when the youngsters are up and performing. I can't envision a scenario where I would fire Ryan, he has done a real nice job recently rebuilding this team. His free agent signings have been very solid overall and the Hughes signing alone could be the signing off the off-season in all of baseball.

    The only way I could see firing Gardy is that if the wheels completely fall off and they lose 90+ games in addition to him losing the clubhouse (Which I don't see happening)
    I see 80 wins as the best we can do, still very good.

    In a year where we are not getting to the playoffs, I would rather see 75 wins and the following things happen:

    Pinto catch 3-4 days a week
    Santana play SS
    Hicks play CF
    Matt G. turn into Tonkin
    Kevin C. turn into Meyer
    Deduno move to the pen and May take his spot
    Kubel get his gold watch and a retirement party

    Our manager should not get credit for winning 4-5 more games than we all thought, but in doing so stunting the development of key players. This franchise has a history of getting rid of prospects/players too early. We could be in a position next year where we need to make decisions on Hicks/Santana/Pinto if we sign a catcher and not have enough information because we wanted a few extra wins in a meaningless year.
    Last edited by tobi0040; 06-05-2014 at 09:24 AM.

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  4. #43
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericchri View Post
    Somebody already mentioned it, but now is when the Sano injury really bites. There's not much to see in AAA to come up and help our hitting lineup (Deibinson Romero for Kubel?). If Sano was there you could see how we might get a charge by bringing him up, but as it is there's just not much there. The pitching situation looks much more promising, but we might not really need the help as much. There are guys who look like they might be better than Correia, but when you throw the major league adjustment onto their performance it's hardly a given.
    It certainly sucks, I'm sure if needed they can always bring in a bat at the deadline. However I look up and down this lineup and honestly don't see many holes besides the huge gaping one in CF.

    OF- Willingham, Arcia is a nice start, the key with both of these guys are health. Defensively ideally Arcia continues to grow, however they both have bats that can stick in LF/RF. CF is obviously a huge hole.

    INF- Plouffe, Dozier and Mauer are gonna produce. Escobar has been a nice surprise at SS and suddenly we have some other options with bats as well with Nunez and Santana.

    C/DH- Susukiz and Pinto are both doing great.

    I think the key with this lineup is health, especially in the OF.
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- L. Harvey Oswald


  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericchri View Post
    Somebody already mentioned it, but now is when the Sano injury really bites. There's not much to see in AAA to come up and help our hitting lineup (Deibinson Romero for Kubel?). If Sano was there you could see how we might get a charge by bringing him up, but as it is there's just not much there. The pitching situation looks much more promising, but we might not really need the help as much. There are guys who look like they might be better than Correia, but when you throw the major league adjustment onto their performance it's hardly a given.
    I honestly believe that if we bring up a bat to replace Kubel's, the logical choice should be Vargas. He can DH or play first while Mauer DHs here and there. We don't have an outfielder that we can bring up to take over for anyone. We don't beed Romero since he is yet another infielder. I hope that Vargas can jump up from AA to replace Kubel's bat and Fuld can come up to be a reserve outfielder (late inning replacement for Willingham). Even though he is slightly out of position, Santana should stay at center until it no longer is working.

  6. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chance View Post
    Even though he is slightly out of position, Santana should stay at center until it no longer is working.
    Dead horse warning. If Danny Santana is a fixture on this team in the future, it is at SS. Playing him in CF over Hicks makes no sense to me in a year where we are not making a run.

  7. #46
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    If Escobar keeps producing at a reasonable rate, then Santana's role on this team may be as a utility player (backing up SS, 2B, CF) for the next few years. If Escobar starts falling off a cliff then, yes, I think it would be wise to move Santana to SS.

  8. #47
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    No. I think its dumb to assign an arbitrary number to
    The irony with the existence of this thread and this comment is almost too much.

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  10. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    The irony with the existence of this thread and this comment is almost too much.
    What? I don't see one bit of irony in "This team is going to win 85 games" and "This was clearly a rebuilding year with the eye on 2015"....

    but to be fair, Dave does kind-of reflect accurately on the Twins seemingly working at cross-purposes with their offseason roster construction. Help me out, what exactly was the Twins' team mission statement of goals and objectives going into 2014?

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  12. #49
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    What? I don't see one bit of irony in "This team is going to win 85 games" and "This was clearly a rebuilding year with the eye on 2015"....

    but to be fair, Dave does kind-of reflect accurately on the Twins seemingly working at cross-purposes with their offseason roster construction. Help me out, what exactly was the Twins' team mission statement of goals and objectives going into 2014?
    It was a rebuilding year, however that doesn't mean teams can break out sooner than thought. The Twins would hardly be the first team to "come out of nowhere" and make a run, that is the beauty of sports, no?

    My real mistake was responding to Thrylos tired meme of "Fire everyone on the Twins" Hot Sports Opinion.

    As far as what they did in the off-season, I'd argue the majority of the moves they made were to help out the team for the future, Nolasco, Hughes and yes even Pelfrey (Sigh) were done with 2015-2016 in mind just as much as 2014 IMHO. Suzuki was brought in as a bridge between the Mauer era to the Pinto era IMO, fortunately that has worked out in the Twins favor as well.

    The fact they didn't trade any prospects, or go after any of the big one year type guys (Drew, Morales) etc indicates to me at least they were focused on the future as their primary goal, while having a secondary goal of improving the current ball club to at least one that would have a shot to compete, and wouldn't be a given to lose 90+ games.
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- L. Harvey Oswald


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  14. #50
    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Help me out, what exactly was the Twins' team mission statement of goals and objectives going into 2014?
    'Make as much money as possible, while attempting to improve the franchise's ability to make even more money in the future via improved on-field product'?

    Got no problem with the first part, as long as it doesn't get in the way of the second. My guess their priority is that the second part not get in the way of the first.

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  16. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    The fact they didn't trade any prospects, or go after any of the big one year type guys (Drew, Morales) etc indicates to me at least they were focused on the future as their primary goal, while having a secondary goal of improving the current ball club to at least one that would have a shot to compete, and wouldn't be a given to lose 90+ games.
    It was wise not to trade any major prospects, but the unfortunate part of this scenario....the one year guys they signed (plus Pelf), other than Suzuki, have actually hampered both your primary and secondary goals- and it was obvious at the time of the signings that the Twins were really reaching in their "putting the band back together" strategy.

    And it's arguable that the goals might have been reversed by the Twins FO, given Pohlad actually going public with his "I'm embarrassed" comment last September, that Jim's primary goal was actually that "it wouldn't be a given to lose 90+ games" while not harming the future, by instead, kicking it down the road maybe 2 more years. It's a shame, because given what we know now, if Sano had been healthy and been able to provide an impact presence by the All Star break, along with not signing Pelfrey (meaning Deduno gets those 5 horrible Pelf starts instead), signing Abreu and acquiring a decent, leadoff-capable, bridge CF or SS, this team would be sitting in a fairly enviable spot right about now., and the future would be even more enhanced.

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