Minnesota Twins News & Rumors Forum
Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 124

Thread: Scoggins lowers the boom on Twins/Hicks situation

  1. #61
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,666
    Like
    11
    Liked 54 Times in 35 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    You're completing skating by the main point of this entire situation, it's about what's best for the Twins and for Hicks. The Twins FO agrees with most fans that Hicks has serious issues that need to be addressed, to which Hicks added yet another wrinkle just last Monday- so both the FO and many fans would beg to differ with your conclusion that "There is no reason to think the outcome with Hicks will be any different whatever league he plays in".

    This has absolutely nothing to do with the projected mediocre performances and comparisons of Presley and Mastroianni relative to Hicks, and everything to do with the Twins needlessly throwing away their CF depth, should Hicks (as borne out) need to go to AAA to work in a lower stress environment and not hurt the major league team, to remedy the very things the Twins FO now admits they would have done sooner, if they only still had their original OF depth.
    Did going to AAA improve Collabello or Parmelee's game?
    Last edited by old nurse; 05-28-2014 at 07:10 PM.

  2. #62
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
    Posts
    4,851
    Like
    180
    Liked 668 Times in 377 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    Did going to AAA improve Collabello or Parmelee's game?
    It did for Hunter and Morneau....is this something we continue ad infinitum?

    If the minor leagues weren't effective for helping with player development.....they wouldn't be used for player development. By and large, where the pressure is off, that's a safer place to work on skills.

  3. #63
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,666
    Like
    11
    Liked 54 Times in 35 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    It did for Hunter and Morneau....is this something we continue ad infinitum?

    If the minor leagues weren't effective for helping with player development.....they wouldn't be used for player development. By and large, where the pressure is off, that's a safer place to work on skills.
    I should have expanded. There comes a point that going back to the minors does not help. Coming up through the system as a Morneua and Hunter is one thing. Going down for injury rehab is another. Yoyoing back and forth starts to signify borderline mlb talent. Maybe the reality is that Hicks is just that, a borderline talent. He wouldn't be the first Twins player to have talent without the ability to use it. It is that pressure to perform that Hicks has to manage. If the pressure is off in the minors, Hicks will not learn. If his mechanics are sound, then the problem comes with what he swings at. If he can't hit mlb pitching, he is not going to see much of it in the minors. He can hit the lower level of pitching, but if he has to learn what pitches to go after and what not to, then he needs the AB at the major league level to learn and prove it.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Double-A
    Posts
    114
    Like
    171
    Liked 66 Times in 37 Posts
    How does one prove that going back to AAA is what made it click for Morny and Hunter? Maybe the same thing happens if they stay in the big leagues..

  5. #65
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
    Posts
    4,851
    Like
    180
    Liked 668 Times in 377 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by WLFINN View Post
    How does one prove that going back to AAA is what made it click for Morny and Hunter? Maybe the same thing happens if they stay in the big leagues..
    Arguing about counterfactuals is counter-productive.

  6. #66
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
    Posts
    4,851
    Like
    180
    Liked 668 Times in 377 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    I should have expanded. There comes a point that going back to the minors does not help. Coming up through the system as a Morneua and Hunter is one thing. Going down for injury rehab is another. Yoyoing back and forth starts to signify borderline mlb talent. Maybe the reality is that Hicks is just that, a borderline talent. He wouldn't be the first Twins player to have talent without the ability to use it. It is that pressure to perform that Hicks has to manage. If the pressure is off in the minors, Hicks will not learn. If his mechanics are sound, then the problem comes with what he swings at. If he can't hit mlb pitching, he is not going to see much of it in the minors. He can hit the lower level of pitching, but if he has to learn what pitches to go after and what not to, then he needs the AB at the major league level to learn and prove it.
    Except Hicks really hasn't proven he can hit the lower level pitching. Certainly not with this new approach. That's a very key difference.

  7. This user likes TheLeviathan's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    LaBombo (05-29-2014)

  8. #67
    Senior Member Double-A
    Posts
    114
    Like
    171
    Liked 66 Times in 37 Posts
    Was just curious how the assumption was made that is all

  9. #68
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
    Posts
    3,582
    Like
    199
    Liked 534 Times in 347 Posts
    Blog Entries
    32
    Hicks has IIRC 82 plate appearances at AAA. Going back to that level and mastering it would make sense. We all know every athlete is different and we can't predict with certainty what is best for them. However, it makes perfect sense for a guy with obvious tools to work on his game in the minors. Probably the most unusual thing about Hicks is that he came to the majors as a patient hitter. Many guys have to go back to the minors to learn to swing at strikes. I think Hicks has a tougher job of learning to make good contact.

    Going back to Hicks' tools, his throwing arm is top of the scale, but the other tools aren't at that point. He's never been a dominant hitter and his power would probably only tally to average. It seems to me that Hicks' speed is good, but not more than that. OTOH, one of the guys to whom he has been compared, Carlos Gomez does have great power and game-changing speed.

  10. This user likes stringer bell's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    LaBombo (05-29-2014)

  11. #69
    Twins News Team MVP
    Posts
    6,754
    Like
    880
    Liked 855 Times in 551 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Tom Powers adds some additional back-story to Hicks's switch-hitting history, with some passive-aggressive doubt thrown in before he's finished.

    http://www.twincities.com/twins/ci_2...ch-hitting-and

    Although it was fairly well-know that Joe Hicks, Aaron's father, made his son convert to a switch hitter at age 13, much more of the background involved in that decision was fleshed out by Powers. Long story short, Aaron promised his Dad that, to continue playing baseball, he would have to do it as a switch hitter....Aaron called his father last weekend to get his blessing for a change he felt he had to make, and the senior Hicks told him he understood what he felt he had to do.

    And then there was these nuggets:

    What Hicks is attempting is not unprecedented. Shane Victorino of the Red Sox quit switch hitting during the 2013 season. Accomplished hitters J.T. Snow, Rico Petrocelli and Reggie Jefferson all quit switch hitting during their careers.Hicks hasn't heard of any of those players. One name he has heard, however, is "Eduardo Nunez," who sits two lockers over from him.
    "I know that name!" Hicks said with a laugh.
    Nunez was a switch hitter during his first few minor league seasons in the Yankees system. Then he went to batting right-handed exclusively.
    "Their idea," Nunez noted.
    So far...so good...but then...

    "My first two or three games I was thinking, 'I can do this!' " Nunez recalled. "But after a while, you start getting that slider away and it's hard. You feel good, but you don't feel good. Oh for four, oh for four, oh for four ... It took three weeks to feel comfortable."At this level it is tough, but he can do it. Just be patient."
    Said Hicks: "When I was thinking about it, we actually talked a little bit about it. He was talking about how he went, like, 1 for 50. I was like, uh, all right ...
    A heart-warming story...closing with a cautionary tale to be careful what you wish for?

    Hicks may be hitting .195, but he certainly leads the league in drama. He can't seem to lie low.
    "Hey, I'm trying," he said.

  12. This user likes jokin's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    LaBombo (05-29-2014)

  13. #70
    Twins News Team MVP
    Posts
    6,754
    Like
    880
    Liked 855 Times in 551 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Hicks may be hitting .195, but he certainly leads the league in drama. He can't seem to lie low.
    "Hey, I'm trying," he said.
    Probably nothing, but Hicks is now sitting for a second day in a row. There was some speculation in print that Hicks might have tweaked his back yesterday doing extra work on his right-handed vs. right hand swings.

  14. #71
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    8,122
    Twitter
    @rocketpig76
    Like
    49
    Liked 1,595 Times in 830 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    There was some speculation in print that Hicks might have tweaked his back yesterday doing extra work on his right-handed vs. right hand swings.
    Hey, at least he's trying.

    In all seriousness, if that's true, it's a good sign that Hicks is putting in the effort to do all he can to succeed as a right-handed hitter.

  15. #72
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,666
    Like
    11
    Liked 54 Times in 35 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Except Hicks really hasn't proven he can hit the lower level pitching. Certainly not with this new approach. That's a very key difference.
    Being able to recognize pitches for where they are going is not the problem for Hicks given his ability to take walks. It would appear he can tell where a pitch is going. The issue comes when the bat leaves the shoulder. That is what makes his case different from the other players you mentioned.

  16. #73
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,666
    Like
    11
    Liked 54 Times in 35 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Probably nothing, but Hicks is now sitting for a second day in a row. There was some speculation in print that Hicks might have tweaked his back yesterday doing extra work on his right-handed vs. right hand swings.
    Hmmm 15 day dl, rehab assignment, management saves face for not having to really demote him.

  17. #74
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
    Posts
    4,851
    Like
    180
    Liked 668 Times in 377 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    Being able to recognize pitches for where they are going is not the problem for Hicks given his ability to take walks. It would appear he can tell where a pitch is going. The issue comes when the bat leaves the shoulder. That is what makes his case different from the other players you mentioned.
    I fail to see how this is a way out of the issue here. Any way you slice it he hasn't had the kind of success when the bat leaves his shoulder to indicate he should be learning a new skill against the best pitchers in the world.

    Let him see some AAA sliders in between (hopefully) mashing some AAA fastballs. I'll keep saying it: confidence is openly a concern for this kid. He needs the best environment for success for him and MLB pitching has almost a full season of proving that this level isn't the place for that.

  18. #75
    Twins News Team MVP
    Posts
    6,754
    Like
    880
    Liked 855 Times in 551 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Probably nothing, but Hicks is now sitting for a second day in a row. There was some speculation in print that Hicks might have tweaked his back yesterday doing extra work on his right-handed vs. right hand swings.
    And the plot thickens in Florida.

    http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats...g_box&sid=milb

    CF depth might now be officially considered a Twins top priority, if not an urgency. Appearing in the lineup tonight for the Miracle, former OF, then-recent 2ndB, Eddie Rosario, comes off of suspension tonight, and in his first appearance, will be playing in CF.

    Is there any scenario if Rosario plays well enough in Ft Myers, and soon New Britain, that he gets a shot in CF with the Twins before the season is over? And even more importantly, assuming Buxton's ascension to the Twins is continued in the current holding pattern, is Rosario now in a position to challenge Hicks for the starting job in CF coming out of ST, 2015?
    Last edited by jokin; 05-29-2014 at 05:43 PM.

  19. #76
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
    Posts
    626
    Like
    12
    Liked 37 Times in 31 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    And the plot thickens in Florida.

    http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats...g_box&sid=milb

    CF depth might now be officially considered a Twins top priority, if not an urgency. Appearing in the lineup tonight for the Miracle, former OF, then-recent 2ndB, Eddie Rosario, comes off of suspension tonight, and in his first appearance, will be playing in CF.

    Is there any scenario if Rosario plays well enough in Ft Myers, and soon New Britain, that he gets a shot in CF with the Twins before the season is over? And even more importantly, assuming Buxton's ascension to the Twins is continued in the current holding pattern, is Rosario now in a position to challenge Hicks for the starting job in CF coming out of ST, 2015?
    Is Rosario the second coming of Mike Trout?
    Seriously. A September call up if he is lights out in New Britain. It would have to be a lot better than his 2013 in New Britain.
    Last edited by The Wise One; 05-29-2014 at 06:22 PM.

  20. #77
    Senior Member All-Star Hosken Bombo Disco's Avatar
    Posts
    1,044
    Like
    1,640
    Liked 489 Times in 285 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    And the plot thickens in Florida.

    http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats...g_box&sid=milb

    CF depth might now be officially considered a Twins top priority, if not an urgency. Appearing in the lineup tonight for the Miracle, former OF, then-recent 2ndB, Eddie Rosario, comes off of suspension tonight, and in his first appearance, will be playing in CF.

    Is there any scenario if Rosario plays well enough in Ft Myers, and soon New Britain, that he gets a shot in CF with the Twins before the season is over? And even more importantly, assuming Buxton's ascension to the Twins is continued in the current holding pattern, is Rosario now in a position to challenge Hicks for the starting job in CF coming out of ST, 2015?
    There's something significant going on (probably a few things) that we don't know about.

    What happened to Hicks as a place holder until Buxton arrives?

  21. #78
    Twins News Team MVP
    Posts
    6,754
    Like
    880
    Liked 855 Times in 551 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by The Wise One View Post
    Is Rosario the second coming of Mike Trout?
    Seriously. A September call up if he is lights out in New Britain. It would have to be a lot better than his 2013 in New Britain.
    Did anyone say one word about this situation even remotely resembling a Mike Trout scenario promotion? And of course, the scenario presumes that Rosario is able to build on his 70-game stint in New Britain from last season (which was actually much better than you presume, particularly for a guy who was nearly 4 years too young for AA).


    It's fairly obvious that the Twins, by their own admission are in scramble mode, even adding Chris Hermann to the CF depth chart. They admit that Hicks would be in AAA if they had a viable option. They have no indication on when/if Fuld can return to action, and even then, he is now at the point where, as he apparently is "resuming baseball activities", he still would require a rehab stint. They have a rookie SS without CF experience starting the last 2 games. Buxton is missing in action, apparently nowhere close to even beginning baseball activities, he's at the point where soon the entire season is basically a write-off. Apparently, Chris Parmelee is the final emergency resort in the absolute worst-case scenario.

    My suggestion was based on Rosario showing baseball acuity in CF above a mere pulse in AA, that the Twins by starting him out in CF right off the bat today, they recognize the gaping hole in the organization at the upper levels, and are leaving all options open- in this case, that "before the season is over", maybe the Twins give Rosario a look during the September call-up, to help formulate their CF plans for April 1, 2015.
    Last edited by jokin; 05-29-2014 at 07:30 PM.

  22. These 2 users like jokin's post and want to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    LaBombo (05-29-2014), Trevor0333 (05-29-2014)

  23. #79
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,244
    Like
    107
    Liked 104 Times in 76 Posts
    Santana as a CF leaves me empty. This is the second "throw home" that has missed the plate and allowed a runner on third to score.

    The arguements about hitting in AAA ignore the obvious logic: if it's easier to hit "down there" then Hicks is going to be prepared to hit for the Twins--but if hitting in AAA truly is relevant preparation, then Hicks should play for the Twins and prove himself at the major league level. Watching Gardenhire run "open mike" CF auditions is exasperating--especially when the plan is to play Buxton in CF.

  24. #80
    Twins News Team MVP
    Posts
    6,754
    Like
    880
    Liked 855 Times in 551 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by Kwak View Post
    Santana as a CF leaves me empty. This is the second "throw home" that has missed the plate and allowed a runner on third to score.
    Great get on Santana, Kwak. Even though he has a great arm, at this point, Santana's understandably more using an infielder's quick-release, short-range, rifle-like throw and lacks the more requisite calibrated cannon-shot approach with a little built-in arc. Obviously, that was a makeable play by a more experienced outfielder with a decent arm, and quite costly in a one-run loss.

  25. This user likes jokin's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    LaBombo (05-29-2014)

Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
©2014 TwinsCentric, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Interested in advertising with Twins Daily? Click here.