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Thread: Interesting Roster decisions coming

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    They had enough depth going into this year: Hicks and two replacement players. All they had to do was hold onto the depth they had. When Fuld came along, they could have DFAd Presley for that upgrade, keeping one guy with options in case of injury.

    That's the problem, "they had Hicks." The depth they had was enough, for 4th OF, emergency relief depth. It was obvious from last year's disastrous debut, Hicks should have been slated for AAA, with a FA signing or trade. Bonifacio, Sizemore.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by kdrupp09 View Post
    I can't help but wonder if the plan for this season was to make it work with whatever they might have in the time being and then keep Buxton up after the Future's game in July.
    Maybe so, but the Twins seem to have either overestimated what they had or decided to go cheap. And they learned nothing from the disaster that was 2013. It would have cost very little to secure an additional bona fide starter-capable CF, both in 2013 and 2014.

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    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    That's the problem, "they had Hicks." The depth they had was enough, for 4th OF, emergency relief depth. It was obvious from last year's disastrous debut, Hicks should have been slated for AAA, with a FA signing or trade. Bonifacio, Sizemore.....
    Sizemore is not a center fielder anymore. Bonifacio made some sense. His OPS last year was slightly better than Hicks. But if you're trying to build a winner, and you are not likely to contend this year, you don't hand the starting job to a guy like Bonifacio. It's all hind sight.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

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    Do we trust Nunez as the backup to 3b and SS then?

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    Senior Member All-Star Ultima Ratio's Avatar
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    I think the Twins front office is very surprised to be sitting two games above .500 at this point. This explains the mind-boggling gambles a bit early in the year (not that I agreed with it at all) with Bartlett and CF roster bungling. They probably thought (with good reason… and this still may very well happen) that we'd be 8-10 games back by this point and hoped for some miracles, buzz and name-recognition in another lost season. Now that we are above .500 I bet (I hope) they rue those decisions.
    Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    Sizemore is not a center fielder anymore. Bonifacio made some sense. His OPS last year was slightly better than Hicks. But if you're trying to build a winner, and you are not likely to contend this year, you don't hand the starting job to a guy like Bonifacio. It's all hind sight.
    You're simply wrong here, this is most certainly not hindsight. There were many, many of us begging and pleading for the Twins to shore up the obvious yawning talent and inexperience gap in CF with both of these names (and others), from the day they became available in the offseason- and cheaply acquirable at that.

    Sizemore has played 13 games in CF for the Red Sox this year, 19 in LF, 4 in RF. Exactly the kind of flexibility you'd want in a defensively challenged OF. Regarding Bonifacio, he made perfect sense, a leadoff batter, and a CF who can also spell 2nd, 3rd and SS. 5th best baserunner in all of baseball since 2010.....the Twins inexplicably chose Bartlett instead. And of course you have Bonifacio there, not to "hand the starting job to"....no one has ever said that....Bonifacio is just precisely the depth required when the other options blow up in your face....simple to play him when things are going bad, keep on the bench when things are going well and DFA when things are going really well.
    Last edited by jokin; 05-22-2014 at 10:34 AM.

  7. #67
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    I am just glad that Mastro and Presley aren't taking any at-bats from Hicks at this point, even if we are left with certainly less than ideal backup situation. Does Fuld have any options left?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WLFINN View Post
    I am just glad that Mastro and Presley aren't taking any at-bats from Hicks at this point, even if we are left with certainly less than ideal backup situation. Does Fuld have any options left?
    No.

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  10. #69
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    You're simply wrong here, this is most certainly not hindsight. There were many, many of us begging and pleading for the Twins to shore up the obvious yawning talent and inexperience gap in CF with both of these names (and others), from the day they became available in the offseason- and cheaply acquirable at that.

    Sizemore has played 13 games in CF for the Red Sox this year, 19 in LF, 4 in RF. Exactly the kind of flexibility you'd want in a defensively challenged OF. Regarding Bonifacio, he made perfect sense, a leadoff batter, and a CF who can also spell 2nd, 3rd and SS. 5th best baserunner in all of baseball since 2010.....the Twins inexplicably chose Bartlett instead. And of course you have Bonifacio there, not to "hand the starting job to"....no one has ever said that....Bonifacio is just precisely the depth required when the other options blow up in your face....simple to play him when things are going bad, keep on the bench when things are going well and DFA when things are going really well.
    Nobody was saying we should sign Sizemore. He looked washed up. Done. Lots of people thought Bonifacio was a good fit. I did not. I still don't, for the reasons I claimed.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

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    The problem with picking up Bonifacio is that he's not really much different than Alex Presley and the Twins already had that guy on the roster. Similar age, similar mediocre bat (in fact, until this season Presley had a considerably better bat).

    To me, all of this still boils down to "What happened with Alex Presley?" Why'd the Twins release him? Why is his OPS+ only 51 in Houston?

    And, for the love of God, why Jason Bartlett?

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  13. #71
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    If the Twins had signed Sizemore as a CF "option", I probably would have quit being a fan. Although I didn't when they held onto Bartlett as the CF option, so take that for what it's worth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    Nobody was saying we should sign Sizemore. He looked washed up. Done. Lots of people thought Bonifacio was a good fit. I did not. I still don't, for the reasons I claimed.
    Wrong. Just wrong. I for one commented on it, as Sizemore was conducting workouts for teams. And you also have been proven wrong on Bonifacio, who has worked out just fine for the Cubs. Having him batting in front of Dozier, while taking the pressure off of Hicks in CF, clearly would not have cost us winnable games by playing infielders in the OF, plus enormously increasing production from Dozier and Mauer batting 2 and 3 behind Bonifacio's .335 OBP and 11 stolen bases.

  15. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    And, for the love of God, why Jason Bartlett?
    This was probably the most mind boggling decision made, especially after he did not hit or field very well in Spring Training.

  16. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beezer07 View Post
    If the Twins had signed Sizemore as a CF "option", I probably would have quit being a fan. Although I didn't when they held onto Bartlett as the CF option, so take that for what it's worth.
    That seems like a very strange stance to take. Sizemore's a very professional guy, who has proven healthy, if not overly effective- he could have occupied a bench spot and been DFA'd at any time without concern for the long-term consequences to the team. It would have been a far less speculative gamble signing than Bartlett.... and he was a cheaper gamble than the Twins took with Bartlett, Kubel and Guerrier, as it only cost the Red Sox $750,000 to find out what he can still do.

  17. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    The problem with picking up Bonifacio is that he's not really much different than Alex Presley and the Twins already had that guy on the roster. Similar age, similar mediocre bat (in fact, until this season Presley had a considerably better bat).

    To me, all of this still boils down to "What happened with Alex Presley?" Why'd the Twins release him? Why is his OPS+ only 51 in Houston?

    And, for the love of God, why Jason Bartlett?
    Not true about Presley's bat. Bonifacio is a career .323 OBP, while Presley's is .295. And Bonifcio turned his OBP into one of the best SB rates in all of baseball, which essentially negated Presley's SLG advantage. Plus you have Bonifacio with 3 straight years of 0.5 dWAR or better, Presley's dWAR...negative for all but one year in his career.

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    Sizemore has "proven healthy" by staying healthy for two months after years of getting injured and sitting games/seasons out? I think not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beezer07 View Post
    Sizemore has "proven healthy" by staying healthy for two months after years of getting injured and sitting games/seasons out? I think not.
    He's still playing and starting, I think when you're buying a short term, very cheap, one-year bridge option, he's proven to be a healthier, cheaper and MUCH better alternative to the Twins chosen options of Bartlett, Fuld and Mastro.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Not true about Presley's bat. Bonifacio is a career .323 OBP, while Presley's is .295. And Bonifcio turned his OBP into one of the best SB rates in all of baseball, which essentially negated Presley's SLG advantage. Plus you have Bonifacio with 3 straight years of 0.5 dWAR or better, Presley's dWAR...negative for all but one year in his career.
    Yes, Bonifacio's OBP is .028 better but that's outweighed by Presley's .060 slugging advantage going into this season. Presley had some better tools, Bonifacio had some better tools. At the end of the day, both are a half-click over replacement level players (and neither are that different from Sam Fuld, either).

    After a hot start, Bonifacio has OPSed at .580 over the past 28 days in 95 plate appearances. He's simply not a very good player and until Presley's weird implosion, they were basically the same guy give or take a little here and there.

    Going into 2014, Presley was a 1.5 WAR guy in ~820 PAs, Bonifacio was a 4.0 WAR guy in ~2300 PAs.

  21. #79
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    To me, all of this still boils down to "What happened with Alex Presley?" Why'd the Twins release him? Why is his OPS+ only 51 in Houston?
    "And why no kudos to the Twins for correct talent evaluation?"

    And, for the love of God, why Jason Bartlett?
    Oh yeah, that'd be a reason.

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  23. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    "And why no kudos to the Twins for correct talent evaluation?"

    Oh yeah, that'd be a reason.
    Hah, exactly. If the Twins had simply gone with Mastro, I think much of the hand-wringing over centerfield would be absent.

    This entire situation still confuses me. I'd like to know what happened with Presley and why he's performing so badly.

    Also, why the Twins felt Bartlett was an acceptable option.

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