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Thread: Revere trade revisited

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    I don't care if May/Worley work out, this was a smart trade. It's unfortunate the Worley collapsed (figured he was a decent back of the rotation arm) but the writing was on the wall that Revere was, at his peak, a mediocre player.

    And guys with his skillset rarely stay at their peak for very long. He literally has one tool, speed.

    And speed is the most volatile of the tools, as it tends to disappear suddenly and without warning.
    We knew, with 100% certainty that Revere was not a starting OF on a good team. Add on that we had at least two guys in our system that projected as a much better CF. And we got a starting pitcher with good numbers and a teams #1 prospect (albeit not a great system). I think Mays floor is a pretty good reliever, but it doesn't really matter to me how it all pans out. You do this deal seven days a week.

  2. #22
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    In the endgame why did the Twins take Revere as their first pick? I would imagine that many players taken after him in that draft turned out to be far more astute choices, am I correct or not in that assumption?

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldguy10 View Post
    In the endgame why did the Twins take Revere as their first pick? I would imagine that many players taken after him in that draft turned out to be far more astute choices, am I correct or not in that assumption?
    Nope, he was a pretty good pick, actually. 28th overall in the first round but 13th in WAR so far. The 07 draft was a bit weak - the best players chosen in the first round after him were Todd Frazier, Josh Donaldson and maybe D'Arnaud. The big miss in the draft was Stanton falling to 76th overall (the Twins had the 28th pick and then the 92nd).

    There was a lot of talk that Pohlad had put a low draft budget together and Revere (like Span) signed quickly and cheaply.

  4. #24
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    Revere never really was going to be anything more than a 4th outfielder for a contending team. The Twins made the smart move and dealt him at peak value and managed to get (what seemed like) two useful pieces for him.

    Of course, now we know that Vance Worley was a disaster and Trevor May still has some questions. Revere would have helped the Twins slow Hicks' development and would have kept this "Shorstops in the outfield" experiment from ever developing if he was still on the roster this year.

    I think the Twins 'won' the trade initially - but neither team is probably happy with the overall value received (as of right now). If May develops into a back of the rotation arm - the Twins won this deal easily. If May doesn't pan out, it's basically a wash.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    And guys with his skillset rarely stay at their peak for very long. He literally has one tool, speed.
    I agree with your overall assessment of the trade, but Revere did have a .326 career MiLB BA, and was right around .300 in the full MLB seasons immediately preceding and following the trade. Coupled with his low K%, that's got to register as some kind of hit tool.

    Actually, while his 2014 is definitely disappointing thus far, Revere is just 2 singles off of his career AVG entering the season, and only 5 singles off of his career high .305 AVG from last season.

    Just a little Revere love, that's all. Like him, but glad my team didn't trade for him!

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  7. #26
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    May I expand this thread to what other players we picked with our first one when other better options were available? I am thinking Chris Parmelee for sure, any other that just jump out?

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    I don't care if May/Worley work out, this was a smart trade. It's unfortunate the Worley collapsed (figured he was a decent back of the rotation arm) but the writing was on the wall that Revere was, at his peak, a mediocre player.

    And guys with his skillset rarely stay at their peak for very long. He literally has one tool, speed.

    And speed is the most volatile of the tools, as it tends to disappear suddenly and without warning.

    I care. It is the scouts' and GM's job to get trades right. Anyone, literally, could trade Revere for nothing if they had the job.....they should be judged on whether or not the trade works to a large extent*

    *their entire career should not be judged on one trade, that is clearly not what I'm saying....
    Lighten up Francis....

  9. #28
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldguy10 View Post
    In the endgame why did the Twins take Revere as their first pick? I would imagine that many players taken after him in that draft turned out to be far more astute choices, am I correct or not in that assumption?
    That was Radcliff's last draft. He was known for drafting based on signability as much as (or more than) ability. Revere agreed to a $750K signing bonus, which was about half of those before and after him in the draft. He was not projected to go until the third round.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

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  11. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldguy10 View Post
    May I expand this thread to what other players we picked with our first one when other better options were available? I am thinking Chris Parmelee for sure, any other that just jump out?
    I don't remember Parmelee being a huge reach at the time. BA actually had a top 150 end of season that year and he was #150. In any event, I think the Twins were also kicking around Ian Kennedy at the time and he went one pick later.

    Looking back on that draft and it ended up the worst Twins draft of the decade but it took a while for that to happen. Joe Benson made a couple top 100 lists, Valencia came in third in ROY voting just a few years later and Tyler Robertson really looked good for a bit in the minors. But none of them (and I suppose Parmelee still has time) really made the jump in the majors.

  12. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    I care. It is the scouts' and GM's job to get trades right. Anyone, literally, could trade Revere for nothing if they had the job.....they should be judged on whether or not the trade works to a large extent*

    *their entire career should not be judged on one trade, that is clearly not what I'm saying....
    I mean that the trade was fundamentally solid from the Twins' standpoint and therefore it was a good one. They traded a one-tool player for a back-of-the-rotation arm and a minor leaguer with solid upside.

    Sometimes, even the "best" trades don't work out as intended due to a myriad of reasons.

  13. #31
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    Agreed, Brock.....even good trades don't work out. You have to look at the portfolio of trades. It was a good strategy, but execution of the strategy is a rather big deal. I think we agree on this, sorry about that......
    Lighten up Francis....

  14. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldguy10 View Post
    May I expand this thread to what other players we picked with our first one when other better options were available? I am thinking Chris Parmelee for sure, any other that just jump out?
    I doubt anyone has a problem expanding it, but do keep in mind that hindsight is 20/20. In the case of both Parmelee and Revere, the Twins weren't drafting in the top 5 and passed over sure things. Anyone you get in the bottom of the first round is likely to have question marks.

  15. #33
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    4th OF with speed for a 5th starter/ bullpen arm. To me this trade is a wash, but that's because Worely imploded. He should have been serviceable similar to Corriea. Revere can still have seasons where he hits .300. but he was never an ideal full time starter. His arm is too weak and he has less than 0 power. Revere is perfect for the National league as he can have several uses off of the bench. pinch runner, pinch hitter for pitcher, and can play the OF. Still has the weakest arm in all of baseball which is what hurts him defensively more than anything.

  16. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by oldguy10 View Post
    In the endgame why did the Twins take Revere as their first pick? I would imagine that many players taken after him in that draft turned out to be far more astute choices, am I correct or not in that assumption?

    You could make that statement about most players drafted in the first round in any draft. There are always going to be players drafted in later rounds that will leave people wondering why they fell so far.

    As for Revere, there were some who bashed that pick at the time as being cheap but it actually pretty solid considering it was late in the first. Only 7 players picked before him have accumulated a higher WAR (a low bar considering Revere's career WAR) as Revere and some never reached the big leagues.

  17. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    Agreed, Brock.....even good trades don't work out. You have to look at the portfolio of trades. It was a good strategy, but execution of the strategy is a rather big deal. I think we agree on this, sorry about that......
    That's fair. I think we're pretty much in agreement on this.

  18. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    AJ, Buchanan, Span, Revere, Milton, Kelly, Knoblauch, Tyler, Keilty, Bullock ...
    Hollins?

  19. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by kab21 View Post
    His defense isn't that good (not a plus skill) since that article said the same things that were said about him while he was a Twin. Poor routes, good speed to make highlight catches and a noodle arm.
    He has me fooled... If the Phillies want to trade him back... I'll take him.

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  21. #38
    Revere was actually a pretty highly rated prospect after a couple years in the minors, 59 by Baseball America and 36 by Baseball Prospetus in 2009, so he was a good draft choice. He's turned out to be a 4th outfielder, but probably have a 15 year career. Hopefully May can develop into something or you have to give the edge to the Phillies on the trade. But it's not exactly a difference maker for either team.

  22. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    He has me fooled... If the Phillies want to trade him back... I'll take him.
    I wouldn't. Revere and Hicks have an identical -0.2 WAR. At least Hicks is on the upswing right now.

  23. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    He has me fooled... If the Phillies want to trade him back... I'll take him.
    Revere
    2013 UZR -2.6
    2014 UZR -2.6, UZR/150: -9.6
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

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