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Thread: Herrmann in: Tonkin out

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    I agree with this. The logical thing to do was to activate him and option him earlier, if you knew you needed to option him, but you would need his bat in NL parks. They just blew that decision.
    I don't know if they blew it as much as they just wanted Arcia to spend more time in AAA and Gardy wants his third catcher back for interleague play. Hard to argue too much with the former, but very easy to argue with the latter.

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    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    Just a moderator note here, but there's a few posters starting to snipe back and forth. Please refrain from that and keep this discussion civil.

    Thank you.

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    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    While it's been great to see the Twins play a better brand of baseball this year, it seems to me that being competitive (so far, anyway) has made the Twins even more reluctant to do what's best for the future.

    Unless the Tonkin demotion was purely based on performance (his xFip is a run lower than Guerrier, who has yet to record a strikeout), the decision to send him down makes no sense to me.

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  6. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaBombo View Post
    While it's been great to see the Twins play a better brand of baseball this year, it seems to me that being competitive (so far, anyway) has made the Twins even more reluctant to do what's best for the future.

    Unless the Tonkin demotion was purely based on performance (his xFip is a run lower than Guerrier, who has yet to record a strikeout), the decision to send him down makes no sense to me.
    I don't know if that is totally true.....to me it is more like they can't decide.

    Floriman is gone, and Santana and Escobar up....that's good long term.
    Hicks is being run out there (if you think learning in the majors is a good idea)....that's long term

    OTOH
    Guerrier
    Bartlett (he seemed to make the decision, not them)
    Pelfrey
    eventually Willingham
    Kubel

    So, ya, I can't figure out the plan.
    Lighten up Francis....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackjack View Post
    It almost gets humorous after awhile, all the angst. I guess I'll trust the people that have been in the business for 25+ years. They want to win too. Herrmann went down, played hard, did well, it’s a good example for other players that get sent down. Plus in the past the Twins have been guilty of bringing players off the DL without enough games in the minors to be ready and they go 1 for 20 when they get back. Better to have Arcia prove he’s healthy AND prove he has his swing back. An extra week or three of rehab/pounding the ball in Rochester may actually help him.
    Tonkin has out-pitched Guerrier and is 11 years younger. So the example thing is kind of a wash.

    You can never go wrong with the 'They're the professionals' argument, but it appears that Antony is running the show, and his experience with roster and personnel decisions is considerably less than 25 years' worth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    I don't know if that is totally true.....to me it is more like they can't decide.

    Floriman is gone, and Santana and Escobar up....that's good long term.
    Hicks is being run out there (if you think learning in the majors is a good idea)....that's long term
    Agreed that playing Hicks every day is good, even if we disagree with them on which level he should be playing at.

    But Escobar for Florimon was probably as much or more about getting a guy who can't hit his golden retriever's weight out of the lineup as it was about getting a younger guy like Escobar some experience. And Santana seems to be Plan C in case Hicks tanks again and Fuld's concussion lingers. Would rather see him at short every day in Rochester.

  11. #67
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaBombo View Post
    Tonkin has out-pitched Guerrier and is 11 years younger. So the example thing is kind of a wash.
    I'm no Guerrier fan, but Tonkin? Are we watching the same guy? Maybe I'm unlucky, but I've seen him give up five leads this year. The typical Tonkin outing: Walk, Walk, homer. The last time I watched him, it went walk walk homer walk walk yank. How does a guy like that not have an xFIP over 10?
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  12. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaBombo View Post
    Tonkin has out-pitched Guerrier and is 11 years younger. So the example thing is kind of a wash.

    You can never go wrong with the 'They're the professionals' argument, but it appears that Antony is running the show, and
    his experience with roster and
    personnel decisions is considerably less than 25 years' worth.
    You mean back in the 90s when he was in charge of compiling the list and then checking off the bus and flight manifests doesn't count as roster and personnel decisions?

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  14. #69
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    The bullpen has some guys that aren't performing well. Look at the ERAs of the four relievers in yesterday's game. Swarzak (5.48), Thielbar (4.50), Tonkin (5.84) and Guerrier (4.50). None of those guys have a lot of innings, and ERA isn't a great stat to judge a reliever on, but none of those guys has a legitimate complaint if they were designated or demoted.

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  16. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackjack View Post
    It almost gets humorous after awhile, all the angst. I guess I'll trust the people that have been in the business for 25+ years. They want to win too. Herrmann went down, played hard, did well, it’s a good example for other players that get sent down. Plus in the past the Twins have been guilty of bringing players off the DL without enough games in the minors to be ready and they go 1 for 20 when they get back. Better to have Arcia prove he’s healthy AND prove he has his swing back. An extra week or three of rehab/pounding the ball in Rochester may actually help him.
    Arcia wasn't really part of the discussion anyway as he wasn't eligible. But I'm all in favor of, and have been from the first week of April, and before, of making sure that Arcia is absolutely 100% healthy and 100% ready to play before he is called up- the extra time in Rochester would likely help him give more assurance that his next call-up can be for the long haul.

    But Hermann's call up does nothing to help anyone but Gardy, what with his strange affectation for having useless spare parts lying around (and he's still pining for Florimon, besides).
    Last edited by jokin; 05-19-2014 at 08:28 PM.

  17. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    How does a guy like that not have an xFIP over 10?
    Probably the answer is in your paragraph: xFIP discounts home runs as "just one of those things". In the big picture that's probably wise, but it leaves one saying about an individual player, "but, this guy sure seems to give up a lot of them fair and square."

  18. #72
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    Probably the answer is in your paragraph: xFIP discounts home runs as "just one of those things". In the big picture that's probably wise, but it leaves one saying about an individual player, "but, this guy sure seems to give up a lot of them fair and square."

    Also, xFIP doesn't count inherited runners that score.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  19. #73
    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    You mean back in the 90s when he was in charge of compiling the list and then checking off the bus and flight manifests doesn't count as roster and personnel decisions?
    Yeah. Though a huge fan of America's 'work your way up' culture, it would make me a little nervous to take a drug made under the watchful eye of a Vice President of Development and Testing who had served 15 years in marketing and 15 weeks overseeing the vetting of stuff going into my body, with a possible side-effect list that reads like a dark Stephen King passage.

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  21. #74
    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    Also, xFIP doesn't count inherited runners that score.
    Good catch. Learn something every day here.

  22. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    I'm no Guerrier fan, but Tonkin? Are we watching the same guy? Maybe I'm unlucky, but I've seen him give up five leads this year. The typical Tonkin outing: Walk, Walk, homer. The last time I watched him, it went walk walk homer walk walk yank. How does a guy like that not have an xFIP over 10?
    You exaggerate greatly. He has pitched in 15 games and had zero walks in in 12 of them. Your 'typical' game consists of one game where that happened. Despite striking out batters in the minors Tonkin isn't K'ing batters and he also has a pathetically low swstr%. He certainly hasn't been very good and I won't lose any sleep with him tweaking things in AAA.

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