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Thread: Diamond pulled after three shutout innings...

  1. #1
    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    Diamond pulled after three shutout innings...

    The assumption is that he will be promoted to be in the Twins rotation. Have to assume that Hendriks would be optioned to Rochester.

  2. #2
    Senior Member All-Star Ultima Ratio's Avatar
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    Oh whew.... When I say the headline I immediately thought TJ surgery needed.... it's just how things have been going.
    Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

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    Twins Contributor All-Star Jeremy Nygaard's Avatar
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    Did I read or dream the quote about Diamond's start being short tonight in case he was needed next week at Target Field? I must have read it, because my dreams raring make sense (or come true).


    (I read it here: LINK)

  4. #4
    Hendrix needs to regain his confidence........numbers dont show it but I think he's pitched well over Sept/April but just missing that one pitch to get him over (not counting last 2 starts....hit hard)

  5. #5
    Does it matter if it's Hendriks or Diamond? Both will give up 6 runs a start.

  6. #6
    Senior Member All-Star
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    I really want to get excited about Diamond, but it's hard to be positive about a 25-year-old rookie who can't top 7.0 K/9 in AAA and who's career minor league WHIP is 1.40.

  7. #7
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    I think that Hendriks will eventually be in AAA where he needs to be, but I think that Swarzak has pitched better than Diamond (and Cole DeVries too) this season. And (hate to say this and I hope he proves me wrong) Diamond will not do much better in the bigs this season than he did last season.

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    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thrylos98 View Post
    I think that Hendriks will eventually be in AAA where he needs to be, but I think that Swarzak has pitched better than Diamond (and Cole DeVries too) this season. And (hate to say this and I hope he proves me wrong) Diamond will not do much better in the bigs this season than he did last season.
    Totally disagree. Swarzak has been poor as a starter this season. And he hadn't been good in the minors since 2007. Other than last year, Diamond has been good. Not great, but good.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    Interestingly, the Twins Rule 5 pick, Terry Doyle, returned to his old team, has incredibly similar numbers to Scott Diamond at AAA. Diamond does have a better ERA (1.3 Difference) while Doyle has better K/9 (2.4 diff). For walks,they're both under 2/9.

    My point here is that, had they felt Doyle was worth the pick I would have preferred they give him a longer look. He could have been kept in the pen for a bit and could have added some possible depth, even if he is the same pitcher as Diamond.
    Last edited by Alex; 05-05-2012 at 12:41 AM.

  10. #10
    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fittdogg View Post
    Does it matter if it's Hendriks or Diamond? Both will give up 6 runs a start.
    Not for 2012, but in the long run, it's the best thing for Hendriks who is a legitimate prospect. It's best for him to be in Rochester.

  11. #11
    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    Interestingly, the Twins Rule 5 pick, Terry Doyle, returned to his old team, has incredibly similar numbers to Scott Diamond at AAA. Diamond does have a better ERA (1.3 Difference) while Doyle has better K/9 (2.4 diff). For walks,they're both under 2/9.

    My point here is that, had they felt Doyle was worth the pick I would have preferred they give him a longer look. He could have been kept in the pen for a bit and could have added some possible depth, even if he is the same pitcher as Diamond.
    Makes sense that Diamond and Doyle had similar solid minor league numbers. Diamond was younger and so a little more upside. He also had never posted an ERA over like 3.30 at any level, including AAA. Doyle was a little older, but based on his success last year, I agree that if they believed in him enough to Rule 5 him, they should have given him more than a handful of innings before they gave up on him. I hope he does well.

  12. #12
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thrylos98 View Post
    I think that Hendriks will eventually be in AAA where he needs to be, but I think that Swarzak has pitched better than Diamond (and Cole DeVries too) this season. And (hate to say this and I hope he proves me wrong) Diamond will not do much better in the bigs this season than he did last season.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs View Post
    Not for 2012, but in the long run, it's the best thing for Hendriks who is a legitimate prospect. It's best for him to be in Rochester.
    Here, here. It's disappointing to see so many guys on this board want to just cut Hendriks adrift, makes no sense. He would have been in Rochester if Baker didn't go down and he should be there now.

  13. #13
    I suppose its worth a shot. Diamond cant pitch much worse than Hendricks, can he?

  14. #14
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Pavano 4.62
    Marquis 6.23
    Blackburn 6.64
    Hendriks 9.00
    Liriano 9.97

    Swarzak 4.64

    Should Diamond get a shot. Those Numbers kind of answer the question.

    Pavano, Baker, Liriano, Blackburn and Marquis are 28.75 Million dollars worth of rotation.

    Swarzak, Hendriks, Diamond, AAA guy and AAA guy will lose just as many games for the Value of 2.5 Million.

  15. #15
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    Pavano 4.62
    Marquis 6.23
    Blackburn 6.64
    Hendriks 9.00
    Liriano 9.97

    Swarzak 4.64

    Should Diamond get a shot. Those Numbers kind of answer the question.

    Pavano, Baker, Liriano, Blackburn and Marquis are 28.75 Million dollars worth of rotation.

    Swarzak, Hendriks, Diamond, AAA guy and AAA guy will lose just as many games for the Value of 2.5 Million.
    A. Keep in mind that Swarzak's numbers as a starter are worse.
    B. Add P.J. Walters and Cole DeVries as those last two guys.
    C. This is what drives me crazy over the years with the team. It isn't the total amount of money spent. It's the garbage money spent here and there that adds up to tens of millions of dollars for REPLACEMENT (or worse) level play.

  16. #16
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shanewahl View Post
    A. Keep in mind that Swarzak's numbers as a starter are worse.
    B. Add P.J. Walters and Cole DeVries as those last two guys.
    C. This is what drives me crazy over the years with the team. It isn't the total amount of money spent. It's the garbage money spent here and there that adds up to tens of millions of dollars for REPLACEMENT (or worse) level play.
    Drives you crazy with this team? Garbage money gets spent with every team, it's the nature of the business.

  17. #17
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinsnorth49 View Post
    Drives you crazy with this team? Garbage money gets spent with every team, it's the nature of the business.
    Yeah, it is the nature of the business but way too much nature with our Twins. So much nature that Trees are growing out of Gardenhires nostrils.

    Mauer 23M
    Morneau 15M
    Pavano 9M
    Baker 6M
    Liriano 5.5M
    Blackburn 4.75M

    Can you say that we are getting 62.75 Million worth of production out of 6 of our top 7 salaries.
    Let's add Jamey Carroll 38 years old and $2.75M

    Now you are looking at 65.5 million for 7 players. Tampa Bay's Payroll is 65 Million. (I know this is a bad example. Tampa Bay has been a model Farm system and is producing young talent and more young talent to keep them World Series threats so thats a tough grading curve.)

    The Twins owners have shown that they will spend a little so I don't believe that is the issue. It's the nature of what we are spending it on. The Nature of the Business has been a F5 Tornado. It's leveling the town. When do we call FEMA.

  18. #18
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    Yeah, it is the nature of the business but way too much nature with our Twins. So much nature that Trees are growing out of Gardenhires nostrils.

    Mauer 23M
    Morneau 15M
    Pavano 9M
    Baker 6M
    Liriano 5.5M
    Blackburn 4.75M

    Can you say that we are getting 62.75 Million worth of production out of 6 of our top 7 salaries.
    Let's add Jamey Carroll 38 years old and $2.75M

    Now you are looking at 65.5 million for 7 players. Tampa Bay's Payroll is 65 Million. (I know this is a bad example. Tampa Bay has been a model Farm system and is producing young talent and more young talent to keep them World Series threats so thats a tough grading curve.)

    The Twins owners have shown that they will spend a little so I don't believe that is the issue. It's the nature of what we are spending it on. The Nature of the Business has been a F5 Tornado. It's leveling the town. When do we call FEMA.
    I don't think at the time the deals were done for the above players anyone really had an issue with it. Because a lot of those players have fallen short of expectations for various reasons it's easy to say now that the Twins should have foreseen that and been smarter. They thought they had a lineup that justified the expense, based on previous performance, in the Rays case, they didn't necessarily.

    The biggest problem in baseball is that the biggest money typically gets spent after a big contract player has played his best baseball, it's like they've earned the right to be overpaid. So if you're saying the Twins should recognize this and not fall into that type of mentality then you're right. It would make them even less popular with most of their fans then they already are however.

  19. #19

    Thumbs up You forgot one thing

    Sure Diamond is the best pitcher the Twins have and he is not even on the roster
    BUT what you forgot to mention is Anderson can take a pitcher with a good delivery and setup and DESTROY him
    The Twins should first FIRE the pitching coach Anderson before bringing up any more prospects for him to ruin in the Majors!!

  20. #20
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    By garbage money I didn't mean the big salaries (both deserved at the time). I would include Pavano's. Blackburn's of course, as well, and obviously Matt Capps. Liriano and Baker are moderately cheap for what they could have produced this year. In years past, Nick Punto, Mike Lamb, Ramon Ortiz, Rondell White, Livan Hernandez, Adam Everett, Craig Monroe, Luis Ayala, Tony Batista, etc. Any given year there is $15 million or more just tossed at players who are grossly overpaid for their value when league minimum players and one $10-12 million player would be vastly better.

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