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Thread: Twins Option Florimon, Herrmann

  1. #61
    Senior Member All-Star Sconnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    He can't be worse than Florimon.

    As much consternation as there has been over centerfield, I don't understand why people haven't been more critical of shortstop, which was the glaring flaw of the roster going into the season in my opinion.

    The Opening Day shortstop had an OPS+ of 0 over 74 PAs. By comparison, Aaron Hicks looks like Barry Bonds next to that guy.
    Last I saw there were 4 players with professional experience at SS on the 40 man and only 2 at CF. "P-Flawed" had no business as the starter, but at least there are reserves who have upside. My issues with the two positions are very different.

  2. #62
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sconnie View Post
    Last I saw there were 4 players with professional experience at SS on the 40 man and only 2 at CF. "P-Flawed" had no business as the starter, but at least there are reserves who have upside. My issues with the two positions are very different.
    I look at shortstop and see almost zero upside. Escobar is a utility guy. Nunez is a butcher. Santana just isn't ready and even his ceiling isn't that high.

    Sure, they're all better than Florimon but that's like saying a kick in the shin is better than a kick in the nuts.

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  4. #63
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    I look at shortstop and see almost zero upside. Escobar is a utility guy. Nunez is a butcher. Santana just isn't ready and even his ceiling isn't that high.Sure, they're all better than Florimon but that's like saying a kick in the shin is better than a kick in the nuts.
    concur. Long term, SS is a bigger problem than CF in my opinion.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    I look at shortstop and see almost zero upside. Escobar is a utility guy. Nunez is a butcher. Santana just isn't ready and even his ceiling isn't that high.

    Sure, they're all better than Florimon but that's like saying a kick in the shin is better than a kick in the nuts.
    I'm curious why you don't think Santana's ceiling is that high? Fast, strong arm, rangy with some pop in the bat. He's clearly got a ways to go but he has some athletic ability.

  6. #65
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linus View Post
    I'm curious why you don't think Santana's ceiling is that high? Fast, strong arm, rangy with some pop in the bat. He's clearly got a ways to go but he has some athletic ability.
    He's a decent prospect, for sure... But he's not even close to a guy like Aaron Hicks and we all see how that is currently going for the Twins.

    If you have an organization with Danny Santana in it and he's somewhere around #15 on the prospect list, that's pretty good. And that's where the Twins currently sit... But Danny Santana isn't a great prospect by any stretch of the imagination. Unless something drastically changes, he'll never sniff anyone's top 100 list.

  7. #66
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    I look at shortstop and see almost zero upside. Escobar is a utility guy. Nunez is a butcher. Santana just isn't ready and even his ceiling isn't that high.

    Sure, they're all better than Florimon but that's like saying a kick in the shin is better than a kick in the nuts.
    I have more hope for Santana than you. But I admit, it's more about tools than numbers. Though he has Guzman upside, his floor is Florimon. The one thing that might be deceptive in his numbers is he's been really young for his level at each stop. He's still developing, and if he can harness his incredible tool chest, he could be special. I think it's worth finding out now.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    He's a decent prospect, for sure... But he's not even close to a guy like Aaron Hicks and we all see how that is currently going for the Twins.

    If you have an organization with Danny Santana in it and he's somewhere around #15 on the prospect list, that's pretty good. And that's where the Twins currently sit... But Danny Santana isn't a great prospect by any stretch of the imagination. Unless something drastically changes, he'll never sniff anyone's top 100 list.
    I'm a little more high on him than this I guess (not really focusing on rankings I guess). Maybe because its really hard to find "true" shortstops and, to my eye, he clearly has the athletic ability to play there. Whether he ever polishes up the fielding and consistency at the plate will determine if my optimism is completely misguided.

  9. #68
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linus View Post
    I'm a little more high on him than this I guess (not really focusing on rankings I guess). Maybe because its really hard to find "true" shortstops and, to my eye, he clearly has the athletic ability to play there. Whether he ever polishes up the fielding and consistency at the plate will determine if my optimism is completely misguided.
    I view him a lot like Dozier with a higher ceiling but lower floor.

    Dozier was a pretty solid prospect for the Twins who got by on smarts and discipline. Santana is kind of the opposite... Which gives him a higher ceiling but a higher chance of flaming out as well.

    Those guys are really valuable in an organization but only in quantity because so many bomb out before they become Brian Dozier. Even Brian Dozier almost bombed out before he became Brian Dozier.

  10. #69
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    Agreed. Except for the very elite prospects, you really have to throw a lot against the wall to make something stick. Boy would it be huge though if he developed into a competent MLB shortstop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    Utility Infielder isn't exactly a difficult slot to fill, but still it seems like we've got a good one right now and can take satisfaction in it, rather than push him to be a mediocre starter.
    This sentence screams "mid-2000s Nick Punto."

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  13. #71
    Senior Member All-Star crarko's Avatar
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    @RhettBollinger: #MNTwins activate Aaron Hicks from 7-day concussion list. Chris Parmelee's contract purchased from Triple-A Rochester. Kenny Wilson DFA'd.
    Oh, I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay,
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  14. #72
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Well that gets him on the 40 man, now to option or DFA one of our 19 relievers and get him on the 25 man.

  15. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    He's a decent prospect, for sure... But he's not even close to a guy like Aaron Hicks and we all see how that is currently going for the Twins.

    If you have an organization with Danny Santana in it and he's somewhere around #15 on the prospect list, that's pretty good. And that's where the Twins currently sit... But Danny Santana isn't a great prospect by any stretch of the imagination. Unless something drastically changes, he'll never sniff anyone's top 100 list.
    I don't know. They both have a chance to succeed or fail completely but so far Hicks is the one who has shown he can't hit ML pitching( so far).

    I like Santana more than most since I believe he has the tools to be plus on both sides of the ball. He probably has a high fail rate but you can't teach that kind of speed or arm. Hopefully they can teach him some patience & to smooth out his game.

    Hicks still has a chance but I don't recall to many players who started their career with his hitting stats who went onto a successful future.

    cmathewson compared him to Guzman & that's probably a good comp. Guzman was a pretty good SS for few years

  16. #74
    Senior Member All-Star crarko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinsnorth49 View Post
    Well that gets him on the 40 man, now to option or DFA one of our 19 relievers and get him on the 25 man.
    He'd be taking Herrmann's spot.
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  17. #75
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crarko View Post
    He'd be taking Herrmann's spot.
    Isn't Hicks taking that spot or are they sending Santana back down? That needs to be done because, you know, 13 pitchers and all.
    Last edited by twinsnorth49; 05-09-2014 at 02:12 PM.

  18. #76
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDean View Post
    This sentence screams "mid-2000s Nick Punto."
    Yes, he might even have been in the back of my mind as I wrote that, and a player like that is a reasonably valuable commodity. It was only when Punto was pressed into everyday use that we came to hate him. If you hold onto a guy like that until he becomes expensive, it saves you from signing the Jamey Carrolls (or late career Nick Puntos) of the world. A small but satisfying market inefficiency, maybe.

  19. #77
    Senior Member All-Star crarko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinsnorth49 View Post
    Isn't Hicks taking that spot or are they sending Santana back down? That needs to be done because, you know, 13 pitchers and all.
    The answer lies deeply hidden in the title of this thread.
    Oh, I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay,
    I sleep all night and I work all day.

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  21. #78
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    They DFA'd one o their CF again? Not a RP? Explain?
    Lighten up Francis....

  22. #79
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crarko View Post
    The answer lies deeply hidden in the title of this thread.
    Whoops, thought Santana and Nunez made 24, apparently not, forgot Fuld bonked his noggin" . Let's just hope when Fuld or Arcia are ready they lose a pitcher instead of Parms.

  23. #80
    Senior Member All-Star crarko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinsnorth49 View Post
    Whoops, though Santana and Nunez made 24, apparently not, forgot Fuld bonked his noggin" . Let's just hope when Fuld or Arcia are ready they lose a pitcher instead of Parms.
    Seems likely. I'm still voting for Burton.
    Oh, I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay,
    I sleep all night and I work all day.

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