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Thread: Nice article on Twins international signings

  1. #21
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    We can only judge from the facts we know, like the spending patterns under both GMs. You can conclude, in the face of all evidence, that Ryan would have done the same thing. I can conclude that since Smith was the GM, he played a role in the decisions. Neither of us know.
    Lighten up Francis....

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJL44 View Post
    Dude. Mike Lynn. Plus, I think the Wolves have the top 4 on the list.

    McHale says hi.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    We can only judge from the facts we know, like the spending patterns under both GMs. You can conclude, in the face of all evidence, that Ryan would have done the same thing. I can conclude that since Smith was the GM, he played a role in the decisions. Neither of us know.
    And we can also draw whatever conclusions we want by ignoring facts, mike. It is a fact that international budgets are pre-set, and that "spending patterns" are a function of the budget. The international scouting and signing process has been the subject of many articles, so we have common knowledge that a myriad of individuals play a much more vital role in the process than Smith did and Ryan does. This cannot be reasonably disputed. Of course you can conclude that Smith played a role, that's a "well duh" conclusion. But judge it from all the facts, mike. If we choose not to ignore the reality of how the international scouting and signing process plays out, then I think we have to conclude that the GM's role is not nearly as important as some choose to assert.

  4. #24
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    Fact: while Ryan was GM, they never spent that much money (before the limits were set by MLB)
    Fact: while Smith was the GM, they did

    Those are the only two facts that we actually know. conclude what you want, I'll conclude what I want.
    Lighten up Francis....

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    Fact: while Ryan was GM, they never spent that much money (before the limits were set by MLB)
    Fact: while Smith was the GM, they did

    Those are the only two facts that we actually know. conclude what you want, I'll conclude what I want.
    Other facts that you have left out while praising Bill Smith for his free spending ways:

    He cut MLB payroll by 15M the same season that he spent 5ish M on Sano/Kepler/Polanco.

    He was two seasons away from Target Field opening.

  6. #26
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by birdwatcher View Post
    This cannot be reasonably disputed. Of course you can conclude that Smith played a role, that's a "well duh" conclusion. But judge it from all the facts, mike. If we choose not to ignore the reality of how the international scouting and signing process plays out, then I think we have to conclude that the GM's role is not nearly as important as some choose to assert.
    People credit and blame the GM because that's part of the job. Executive positions assume the risk of being responsible for what their underlings do both good and bad. It would be ridiculous to slam the brakes on every discussion of the front office because we can't parse out what share of responsibility the GM had to that particular move in question.

    This article gives names that both Smith and Ryan should get credit for bringing in. Sano was a particularly unique case that Smith presided over and he deserves more credit for what a game changer it was to take that risk. It should be ok for people to tip their hat and say "Yeah, that one really worked out!" I think McHale was an awful GM...but big tip of the cap for Love!

    I know what you're trying to do is be fair in credit/blame, but that's just not a practical way to discuss the matter nor does it take into account that the GM role comes with this sort of criticism/praise.

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    ChiTownTwinsFan (05-06-2014), messed up (05-06-2014), righty8383 (05-06-2014), USAFChief (05-06-2014)

  8. #27
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    I'm really not interested in this argument, again. I started off by praising the article, even though I had been critical of them lately. Then we had to get into the whole "Smith sucks, Ryan is awesome", "no, Smith did some good things" argument for the 100000000 time. I hope to never have this discussion again, frankly.
    Lighten up Francis....

  9. #28
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Moderator's note: a side comment about an ex-GM does not need to turn into a retrospective on that GM's career. Several people couldn't resist the bait. Let's end that aspect of the discussion, here and now.

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    glunn (05-06-2014)

  11. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    Moderator's note: a side comment about an ex-GM does not need to turn into a retrospective on that GM's career. Several people couldn't resist the bait. Let's end that aspect of the discussion, here and now.
    Fair enough ashbury, it's your ball. But you know, when several people "take the bait", what's wrong with allowing a little leeway? You'll note that as the first one "baited" by a commenter regurgitating the GM retrospective stuff, my attempt was to steer the conversation to a quick discussion point about others who deserve credit. Is that not more relevant to the topic than the standard mindless crediting of all things to some past or present GM as if the rest of the organization is impotent?

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    Paul Pleiss (05-06-2014)

  13. #30
    Senior Member Triple-A Paul Pleiss's Avatar
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    glunn edit -- not the place to discuss moderation.

    The Twins have been known to be big in Australia, they seem to continue to pull young Aussies across the ocean and develop them all the way up to the big leagues, hopefully some of those Aussies can find a permanent home at MLB level. Bill Smith, for all the griping I've done about him over the years, did oversee some quality international acquisitions, and with so much talent in baseball coming from the international market, I really should give him a repreive. The Twins have a lot of young talent in the organization, and I'm excited to watch these young men, especially the international guys, develop. A guy like Lewis Thorpe would be a great story to follow in the coming years, and Polanco? Yes please. I think he can stick at SS too, hopefully he proves to the Twins that he can.

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