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Thread: Danny Santana

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    I wanted to win now in the off season. This roster is not constructed for that, imo. So I want the future up, and getting their feet wet, this year. That, to me, would make next year better. IF a rookie is up, I want him playing.
    I agree, if he's up he should be playing close to everyday. That said, I'm liking that Escobar is getting extended time at SS right now and hope he can stick there. Havent' gotten to see him much live at SS, anyone know how he's been there defensively?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Brooks View Post
    Is Arcia healthy or not?
    If he's not, he shouldn't be playing in minor league games. If he is, why is he not ready? The guy missed 3 weeks, not 3 months.
    Manny Machado missed 9 months and came back after 4 rehab games, I don't see why 4 or 5 games isnt enough when you have only missed 3 or 4 weeks.



    As for Meyer, I didn't mean at the break of camp, I mean now.
    He would be one of our best 5 pitchers, and he can continue to refine his changeup on the MLB roster, we do have Bobby Cuelluar on staff, so we not?
    Shocking, that he will just so happen to be "ready", conveniently, when the Super 2 date passes.
    Meyer has added the change since then, but his curve he needed work on. I mean, it was nasty when he could locate it, but there were a lot of way off misses. He probably would be one of our best 5 now but Nolasco is pitching decent, Hughes is doing ok, Gibson is fine, Deduno just getting started, so that leaves Correia, and I doubt they move him yet. I'm looking forward to seeing Meyer up here, whenever that happens.

    Hard to say if Arcia is 100% or not. If he is, and can start making better contact he should be here. Who knows what's up with him.

  3. #23
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halsey Hall View Post
    And here I thought you wanted to win now. That's what they are trying to do. When we're 15 games out later in the summer is the time to see what some of these minor leaguers can do.
    These things are not mutually exclusive. Especially in Santana's case.

  4. #24
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    That's true.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Triple-A Reider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfchest View Post
    Havent' gotten to see him much live at SS, anyone know how he's been there defensively?
    He's been pretty good. A bit shaky, but gets the job done most of the time.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    These things are not mutually exclusive. Especially in Santana's case.
    Agreed. I am guessing Santana will hit more than .121. I thought it was a typo today at .109.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halsey Hall View Post
    Meyer has added the change since then, but his curve he needed work on. I mean, it was nasty when he could locate it, but there were a lot of way off misses. He probably would be one of our best 5 now but Nolasco is pitching decent, Hughes is doing ok, Gibson is fine, Deduno just getting started, so that leaves Correia, and I doubt they move him yet. I'm looking forward to seeing Meyer up here, whenever that happens.

    Hard to say if Arcia is 100% or not. If he is, and can start making better contact he should be here. Who knows what's up with him.
    One could argue Correia has been as decent as Nolasco (4 awful games and 2 good ones). But the 50M man isn't going anywhere and Correia will get an extended look since he was halfway decent last year and hasn't been Pelfrey level awful.

    There was a pretty good argument that Arcia (Hicks) should have started the minors before the season started. He has raw skill but he has so far been overmatched at the plate and it doesn't help that he has missed time with an injury. Keeping him down is not issue.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by kab21 View Post
    One could argue Correia has been as decent as Nolasco (4 awful games and 2 good ones). But the 50M man isn't going anywhere and Correia will get an extended look since he was halfway decent last year and hasn't been Pelfrey level awful.

    There was a pretty good argument that Arcia (Hicks) should have started the minors before the season started. He has raw skill but he has so far been overmatched at the plate and it doesn't help that he has missed time with an injury. Keeping him down is not issue.
    Arcia had an above average OPS+ as a 22 year old rookie last year.
    Did he look flawless? No, of course not.
    Did he show enough that he deserves to work through his slumps at the MLB level? I think he does.
    Do we need to see Mike Trout level production before a young player deserves to be up?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Brooks View Post
    Arcia had an above average OPS+ as a 22 year old rookie last year.
    Did he look flawless? No, of course not.
    Did he show enough that he deserves to work through his slumps at the MLB level? I think he does.
    Do we need to see Mike Trout level production before a young player deserves to be up?
    You need to look beyond numbers. He survived on his raw talent alone but he was overmatched with terrible plate discipline and was swinging and missing a lot. His numbers looked okay because he connected with a ball every once in awhile but he needs to have a plan at the plate.

  10. #30
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    IMO, it doesn't say much good about Santana as a prospect if he gets called up to the big leagues, even due to a roster crunch, and not only isn't he the everyday SS, they have him taking fly balls in the OF.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by kab21 View Post
    You need to look beyond numbers. He survived on his raw talent alone but he was overmatched with terrible plate discipline and was swinging and missing a lot. His numbers looked okay because he connected with a ball every once in awhile but he needs to have a plan at the plate.
    Okay, but what is the reason he can't work on that stuff at the MLB level, with Brunansky?

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    IMO, it doesn't say much good about Santana as a prospect if he gets called up to the big leagues, even due to a roster crunch, and not only isn't he the everyday SS, they have him taking fly balls in the OF.
    Agreed, Twins managment has really learned nothing from having Bartlett and Colabello and their laughably, cringe-inducing, pale imitations of major league OFers, why would you double down on this experience? It's as unfair to the rookie presuming they can just plug him into CF, as it was to Bartlett to play anywhere in the OF ....and more than casting grave doubts about Santana's future as the Twins SS, I would add that it also doesn't say much good about the roster constructors who self-inflicted this so-easily-forseeable-roster-crunch wound.

  13. #33
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    IMO, it doesn't say much good about Santana as a prospect if he gets called up to the big leagues, even due to a roster crunch, and not only isn't he the everyday SS, they have him taking fly balls in the OF.
    Well he isn't ready for MLB. He's about the only healthy good player near the MLB, however, who is worth bothering with for emergency CF, though.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    Well he isn't ready for MLB. He's about the only healthy good player near the MLB, however, who is worth bothering with for emergency CF, though.
    Moises Sierra or Juan Pierre could be claimed/signed instead? Or a trade engineered for a AAAA CFer?

  15. #35
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    I have a hard time seeing how the week or 10 days he might spend being a utility bench player will either hurt his development or the Twins. He is here until either Hicks, Arcia or Willingham return.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jorgenswest View Post
    I have a hard time seeing how the week or 10 days he might spend being a utility bench player will either hurt his development or the Twins. He is here until either Hicks, Arcia or Willingham return.
    For a weekend, maybe, but longer than that? I couldn't disagree more. Santana showed both in ST and in Roc., that he has the talent and the tools, but is lacking the requisite reps, both in the field and at the plate, to earn a call-up. He needs to be playing every day, honing and refining his deficient areas, building and reinforcing his muscle memory- not suddenly thrust into some ethereal Team Chemist role.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by jorgenswest View Post
    I have a hard time seeing how the week or 10 days he might spend being a utility bench player will either hurt his development or the Twins. He is here until either Hicks, Arcia or Willingham return.
    i don't think many teams do that with someone viewed as a top prospect. If they really believed he is the SS of the future, I doubt they mess with that by sitting him, or messing around with other positions. He'd be the temporary full time SS, and only that.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

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  19. #38
    Senior Member All-Star Hosken Bombo Disco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    Well he isn't ready for MLB. He's about the only healthy good player near the MLB, however, who is worth bothering with for emergency CF, though.
    I agree with Chief and will say our favorite team seems to be in the middle of the dentity crisis that most people on these boards, on both sides of the issues, were predicting might happen.

    Also, I'm starting to feel a cognitive dissonance with the quality of our farm system-- we are told it's the best in the majors, but we have no one who is MLB ready to call up? (Yeah yeah injuries to Sano etc). Hmmmm.

  20. #39
    Senior Member Triple-A DocBauer's Avatar
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    First, very glad to see Escobar finally get his chance. About time! Count me as one of those riding on the Florimon bandwagon. Love watching him play, teased by what he can/could do even if he hits just a little. I truly felt the Twins had a short term answer at SS for the next season or two, even if he only hit as well as last year, and presumably with experience, at least marginally better. But when you make NL pitchers look like dangerous hitters, you are virtually in panic mode.

    Second, for whatever reason, I tend to miss games Escobar starts on the TV/net, usually only catching them on the radio. But his reputation coming up, and when traded for by the Twins, including comments from Gardy, was that he was a quality glove man with some speed, and SS was his best position. Even with some regression defensively, the team as a whole simply has to be improved with him there and a 9 hitter who is at least a mild threat.

    Third, time to send Florimon down. (I am certain I've read where he has a option or two left) He has value at Rochester, insurance for the ball club, and who knows, maybe he gets his bat figured out to the point he could hit at least as well as last year. But he is a SS by trade, so what good is a backup SS who can't play other positions and only hits .100 going to do for our bench?

    Fourth, I'm intrigued by Nunez. Very unfortnate he gets injured right after acquiring him. I'm by no means saying we got a steal here, but he was well regarded coming up through the minors, was targeted as Jeter's replacement, and seems to be a decent all around hitter with some pop and speed, at least for a middle inf/utility type. I have a hard time believing his glove is a iron-clad as some have stated, but no intimate knowledge here. Just find it difficult how he cold be regarded fairly higher, and as a Jeter heir, and yet be unable to play defense. Is this a case of undue pressure from expectation and future role, combined with intermittent playing time?

    However, with Nunez out for the time being, it's time to bring up Bernier. Don't misunderstand me, Bernier is what he is despite a surprisingly strong start to his season offensively, and that is a replacement level player at utility. But you also don't hang around the game this long if you are inept. And he did show solid defense in his time with the Twins last season. The fact that he can apparently play other positions without flat-out stinking up the joint offers of some slight value. And once again, we're talking about replacing a one position playe who hits .100.

    Lastly, I hope Santana doesn't just sit on the bench the entire time he's up. Even the opportunity to flail or fail can offer up lessons learned for him to take back to Rochester. I believe the reason he is up is because he has at least a bit of brief experience in the OF with Hicks on the 7 day, and being on the. 40 man means no immediate action has to take place.

    To anyone annoyed that he isn't being brought up to start immediately in this tenure, I would remind you Esobar has pretty much just been handed the position. As such, I don't think you toss a rookie out there who isn't quite ready, and probably wouldn't have been called up until mid-season-ish just for the sake of putting him out there. You have a new SS that is playing decently, and I believe you stick with that decision for now.

  21. #40
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    If Santana is not going to start much if at all, hopefully this will last a week or less so he can go back down and play everyday. If the promotion is for a week or less then it is a good first call up opportunity and learning experience for him so when he gets the call up to start he will know more of what to expect. If he plays everyday even better. If the promotion is for an extended time and he is going to be on the bench, the Twins would be better off with Bernier up.

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