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Thread: Pelfrey to the bullpen?

  1. #21
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twins Twerp View Post
    If anyone gets called up from the minors it will probably be kris Johnson as he is a lefty and on the 40 (i think). The other option is May as he is also on the 40. We wont see Meyer for awhile because of super 2 status. No need to rush him. Mid july is more luckily. I would prefer to bring him up like the cardinals do, stick him in bullpen this year.
    Meyer isn't even on the 40 man. Until he's on the 40, I'd say there about 4 guys ahead of him.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Triple-A
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
    The Twins will be loyal to both Corriea and Pelfry for signing below market contracts.
    I know someone else remarked on this - but wow. In the long and sundry history of the internet, this might be the least accurate statement ever made.

  3. #23
    Senior Member All-Star crarko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivlikejehu View Post
    I know someone else remarked on this - but wow. In the long and sundry history of the internet, this might be the least accurate statement ever made.
    Snopes.com has a message for you, sir.
    Mystery creates wonder, and wonder is the basis of man's desire to understand. - N. Armstrong

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  5. #24
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    Meyer isn't even on the 40 man. Until he's on the 40, I'd say there about 4 guys ahead of him.
    That's technicality, easily remedied with a DFA. Based on Antony's recent comments, he's next in line.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  6. #25
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    Regarding Pelfrey, he was a little better his last start. Still not even to satisfactory, but not embarrassing. The numbers are pretty stark--he's walked too many and his velocity isn't where it was last summer and fall. Pelfrey late last year was pretty good with a pretty high velo fastball and decent command and currently both are missing in action. If he's hurt, it would be in the interest of both player and team for him to take a DL stint. If he's 100%, it is fair to say that he's not pitching good enough to deserve a spot in the rotation.

  7. #26
    Senior Member Triple-A Reider's Avatar
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    Only in Minnesota does the best starting pitcher from last year "lose" his job to a bunch of duds, only to have fans scream to have him put back into the starting rotation less than a month into the following season. Too funny.

  8. #27
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reider View Post
    Only in Minnesota does the best starting pitcher from last year "lose" his job to a bunch of duds, only to have fans scream to have him put back into the starting rotation less than a month into the following season. Too funny.
    I'm not even sure what this means, the fans were responsible for Deduno losing his job but now want him back? What are you saying here?

  9. #28
    Senior Member All-Star Sconnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reider View Post
    Only in Minnesota does the best starting pitcher from last year "lose" his job to a bunch of duds, only to have fans scream to have him put back into the starting rotation less than a month into the following season. Too funny.
    Deduno isn't the guy I want in the rotation, he's the guy I think is most likely to take the next open rotation spot, which I think will soon be vacated by Pelfrey. I would rather have Meyer, but he's not on the 40 which Antony won't DFA Pelfrey or Corriea yet.

  10. #29
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivlikejehu View Post
    I know someone else remarked on this - but wow. In the long and sundry history of the internet, this might be the least accurate statement ever made.
    How so? I didn't say they wouldn't trade them or demote them to the pen. but I don't see them releasing them outright. They will try to accommodate them if they can as they want other free agents to see they will be given fair treatment if things do not work out. It gives them a reputation as being a good place to go when you are a free agent.

  11. #30
    Senior Member MVP
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    What is not fair about getting millions of dollars, and being made a fre agent?
    Lighten up Francis....

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  13. #31
    Senior Member All-Star Sconnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
    How so? I didn't say they wouldn't trade them or demote them to the pen. but I don't see them releasing them outright. They will try to accommodate them if they can as they want other free agents to see they will be given fair treatment if things do not work out. It gives them a reputation as being a good place to go when you are a free agent.
    I take issue with the "below market" part. I doubt any of the free agents the Twins signed have been anything other than the best contract for the player.

  14. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sconnie View Post
    I take issue with the "below market" part. I doubt any of the free agents the Twins signed have been anything other than the best contract for the player.
    I agree. I would think the same is true for most free agent signings. Once signed it is a matter of performing below, at or above the level of contract.

  15. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    Meyer isn't even on the 40 man. Until he's on the 40, I'd say there about 4 guys ahead of him.
    I disagree. There are plenty of roster-clutterers at this point, and a trade, 60-day DL or DFA can be accommodated in an instant. And who would the 4 guys ahead of him be? May, Johnson and Darnell, plus Deduno would be my assumption. The Twins have been all over the likelihood of Meyer's good chances for joining the big club since ST, and the reporters are repeating this message ever since- he's clearly a better option than any of the other 4. The Twins are making a concerted effort in putting a competitive team on the field, finally! It's a new day in Twins Territory. Once Meyer passes the arb date, it's only a matter of time that Meyer is called up, either as a starter or in the pen.

  16. #34
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jorgenswest View Post
    I agree. I would think the same is true for most free agent signings. Once signed it is a matter of performing below, at or above the level of contract.
    The point is, he was unlikely to get $5 Million for one year, let alone two. But the Twins wanted to get more out of him than they got last year. So they became victims of a classic blunder--the sunk cost fallacy, whereby you keep playing a losing hand because you've already bet a lot on it.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

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  18. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    The point is, he was unlikely to get $5 Million for one year, let alone two. But the Twins wanted to get more out of him than they got last year. So they became victims of a classic blunder--the sunk cost fallacy, whereby you keep playing a losing hand because you've already bet a lot on it.
    Classic blunder is an apt description. Was there actually ANYBODY else seriously bidding for Pelfrey's services?

    But there is another classic blunder that Twins committed in this case: falling in love with players because of "personal makeup", "positive clubhouse influence", etc. I must admit, it's hard not to like Pelfrey personally, but I'd take the "disruptive influence" of somebody like a Kyle Lohse, any day of the week, all things considered- making things easier for a manager should be at the bottom of the priority list.

  19. #36
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    The point is, he was unlikely to get $5 Million for one year, let alone two. But the Twins wanted to get more out of him than they got last year. So they became victims of a classic blunder--the sunk cost fallacy, whereby you keep playing a losing hand because you've already bet a lot on it.
    If my understanding of "sunk cost" is correct, Pelfrey wasn't a sunk cost this past winter. The Twins didnt owe him a penny.

    Continuing to give him starts this year or next, because you owe him money, would be an example of not understanding " sunk costs."
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

  20. #37
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Right now, I see two guys in front of Meyer. Johnson and Deduno.

    May still has a lot to prove before he gets the call. Darnell isn't in the conversation, IMO.

    Either way, I expect to see Meyer at some point this season... Probably September unless everyone in front of him crumbles. Next season, it wouldn't surprise me to see him in the rotation on Opening Day.

  21. #38
    Senior Member All-Star Sconnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    If my understanding of "sunk cost" is correct, Pelfrey wasn't a sunk cost this past winter. The Twins didnt owe him a penny.

    Continuing to give him starts this year or next, because you owe him money, would be an example of not understanding " sunk costs."
    The sunk cost in this sense, is the investment in rehab starts at the major league level. The FO trotted out Pelf last year while he was still healing, the blunder here is, "We've invested into his playing time as an injured player, now let's reap the reward of a healthy player" but it's a fallacy, you can't assume that he's healthy or more productive one year to the next, just because he was one year removed from TJ and now is two years removed.

  22. #39
    Senior Member All-Star Sconnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jorgenswest View Post
    I agree. I would think the same is true for most free agent signings. Once signed it is a matter of performing below, at or above the level of contract.
    Bingo, this is why I find the Evan Longoria or Glen Perkins model of contract negotiations fascinating in context. The Rays resigned Longoria long term during his rookie contract to lock him up. This follows the depreciation model of capital investing to a tee, where usual sports contracts are the reverse. In sports players become more valuable, the shorter their expected playing time becomes, up to a point where the player seeks out the long contract because they know the clock is about to runout. In capital investing, the capital has it's most value when it's new, and gets depreciated out over the expected life. Any continued operation past the expected life is money in the bank.

    With baseball players, the last part is Moneyballing, signing the old fogey to a short cheap contract because he's had success in the past, and you think you can platoon him to shield his Achilles.

    It's really tough to Moneyball starting pitchers, but TR sure likes to try.

  23. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sconnie View Post
    I take issue with the "below market" part. I doubt any of the free agents the Twins signed have been anything other than the best contract for the player.
    Boras never signs his guys at a discount. We paid Pelfrey $4-5M last year to rehab on our dime, and put up a 5.19 ERA in the process. Coming off that year, we gave him a two year deal. I would be shocked if he had another 2 year deal on the table. There is really no other way to look at it, we were the sucker in this situation.

    I just hope someone explains to the front office that deals like Livan Hernandez, Jason Marquis, and Mike Peflrey end up being extremely expensive on a per start basis. Livan made $5M from April to July, Marquis made $3M for seven starts. It appears Pelfrey will have made $11M for 5-6 starts and 3-4 bullpen appearances before we realize we are much better off with Deduno, Swarzak, or a number of different options out there. On the margin, we never have $8M each offseason for a player that will improve our team, but it seems we have $5M every year in dead weight.
    Last edited by tobi0040; 04-28-2014 at 08:34 AM.

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