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Thread: Dave Cameron: Are the Twins becoming a team of Joe Mauers?

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    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Dave Cameron: Are the Twins becoming a team of Joe Mauers?

    Not the title, but it could be. It's about how the Twins have simply stopped swinging at pitches and reaped rewards for it. Good stuff.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-t...an-dont-swing/

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    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    That one inning against the Jays I'm sure skewed things a bit, as a commentor noted... I'd also say that if pitchers start throwing them more strikes, the should still get good hits. The key to plate discipline isn't as much drawing walks as it is laying off pitches you cannot make good contact on.

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    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    I'm confident that it's more complicated than "simply stopped swinging", but it's nice to see recognition for the good results at the plate these first few weeks.

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    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    That one inning against the Jays I'm sure skewed things a bit, as a commentor noted... I'd also say that if pitchers start throwing them more strikes, the should still get good hits. The key to plate discipline isn't as much drawing walks as it is laying off pitches you cannot make good contact on.
    Yep. As Cameron points out, pitchers are going after the Twins' hitters based on zone percentage, the hitters just aren't swinging often unless they get something they can hit. That's a very good sign.

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    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Kudos have been offered to Brunansky, but it occurs to me to wonder whether Jack Goin has unearthed some methodology to detect tendencies in opposing pitchers (count, outs, men on base, ...) to help guide the strategy at bat. It can't help with pitch recognition, but situational thinking, if it can be boiled down, can't hurt. And not all 2-1 counts are born equal.

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    Hey someone stole my idea on this. Who says Joe Mauer isn't a mentor? It looks like the whole team is following his approach. What I don't understand is that as poor as Joe is hitting right now why do they still walk him? Why don't pitchers get more aggressive in the zone when they know we aren't swinging?

    Price went after the hitters and made it to the 8th inning I believe. I think the Twins have proven that pitchers need to throw strikes or they won't make it out of the 4th inning. I really like the team approach but at some point they are going to have to actually hit the ball.

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    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    The key to plate discipline isn't as much drawing walks as it is laying off pitches you cannot make good contact on.
    Unless you're Joe Mauer with RISP late in a game that your trailing, that's totally different .

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    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Joe Mauer, an example for others to follow?..........you don't say.

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    A team full of Joe Mauers wouldn't have any home runs therefore your title is completely wrong.

    But it sure has been fun to watch this.

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    "I don’t think anyone expects guys like Colabello and Kubel to keep hitting, after all, and Kurt Suzuki has a long track record of not being able to hit, so expecting him to have figured something out at age-30 is unrealistic. The Twins offense is performing way over its head, and is basically guaranteed to regress over the next five months."

    Cruel reality!

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    When Arcia and Willingham return to the lineup the swinging might increase. From what I can remember, they seem to be more aggressive at the plate.

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    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustinCB View Post
    "I don’t think anyone expects guys like Colabello and Kubel to keep hitting, after all, and Kurt Suzuki has a long track record of not being able to hit, so expecting him to have figured something out at age-30 is unrealistic. The Twins offense is performing way over its head, and is basically guaranteed to regress over the next five months."

    Cruel reality!
    I would agree wholeheartedly on Suzuki, but let's not forget that Kubel (up until last season) was a pretty decent hitter, and he's not exactly putting up otherworldly numbers right now... He's just hitting well. He very well could do this all year long.

    Cola is a bit of a wildcard as he's raked in the high minors the last two seasons but struggled in MLB last year. His age is a factor against him, but he's demonstrated the ability to adjust... Who knows. If he keeps it up, he becomes quite the steal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JustinCB View Post
    "I don’t think anyone expects guys like Colabello and Kubel to keep hitting, after all, and Kurt Suzuki has a long track record of not being able to hit, so expecting him to have figured something out at age-30 is unrealistic. The Twins offense is performing way over its head, and is basically guaranteed to regress over the next five months."

    Cruel reality!
    I was trying to think of something more insightful than "duh" to say to this, but...duh! The question is whether they can keep up the plate discipline (namely, drawing walks) if the BABIPs start coming down. I sure hope so, as plate discipline is a skill that can be learned/taught, IMO

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    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    I'm confident that it's more complicated than "simply stopped swinging", but it's nice to see recognition for the good results at the plate these first few weeks.
    For overall walks? yeah a little. For each hitters swing rate? Not so much. That inning was more or less just one at bat for each of the guys, ntm several of them swung at other strikes in the at-bats.
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- L. Harvey Oswald


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    Senior Member Triple-A zchrz's Avatar
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    It will be interesting to see how other teams start to pitch them after the Rays series. Price really gave them trouble by constantly throwing strikes and not giving them much to take, though they did adjust some and hit the 2 mistakes he made en route to him throwing a complete game. He is an elite example of a strike thrower, and there are few of those, but that looks to be the kryptonite to a patient lineup. Odorizzi, or however its spelt, tried and was successful at the same thing the next game until he started hanging change ups.
    "Professionalism - When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S Thompson

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    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Guys like Price are the kryptonite for pretty much every team, if they can make everyone else have to reach that standard I like they're chances.

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    Dave Cameron continue to hate Kubel. I don't think he's had one nice thing to say about Kubel his whole career.

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    Senior Member All-Star Sconnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beezer07 View Post
    I was trying to think of something more insightful than "duh" to say to this, but...duh! The question is whether they can keep up the plate discipline (namely, drawing walks) if the BABIPs start coming down. I sure hope so, as plate discipline is a skill that can be learned/taught, IMO
    I'm more worried about whiffs than BABIP at this point. According to walk rate, eventually pitchers are going to start throwing more hitable pitches knowing Twins batters are reluctant to swing. The natural response is to swing more frequently. Similarly to the gripe about "pitch to contact" here with the Twins, other teams will see the same 2012-2013 Twins issue of putting many balls into play for many teams will lead to more errors and plays that cannot be made. My fear is this team won't put that many into play, just strike out on hitable pitches.

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    Senior Member All-Star Sconnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zchrz View Post
    It will be interesting to see how other teams start to pitch them after the Rays series. Price really gave them trouble by constantly throwing strikes and not giving them much to take, though they did adjust some and hit the 2 mistakes he made en route to him throwing a complete game. He is an elite example of a strike thrower, and there are few of those, but that looks to be the kryptonite to a patient lineup. Odorizzi, or however its spelt, tried and was successful at the same thing the next game until he started hanging change ups.
    Good point Ordorizzi isn't Price, but looked like him until he lost the feel for the change up. Not many Price's out there, but there's a whole bunch of Ordorizzi's.

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    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iastfan112 View Post
    Dave Cameron continue to hate Kubel. I don't think he's had one nice thing to say about Kubel his whole career.
    Cameron tends to hold a grudge when he says something that belongs in the Preposterous Statement Tournament, doubles down on stupid by ridiculing anyone who dares disagree, and then is proven badly wrong.

    In 2009, Cameron wrote a piece critical of the Twins for extending Kubel. The money quote: "In what world is Kubel better than Eric Hinske?" Kubel put up a .907 OPS that year, and Cameron got a lot of (deserved) grief over it.

    I laughed when the Mariners signed Robbie Cano, the subject of perhaps the most famous of Cameron's preposterous statements.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

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