Minnesota Twins News & Rumors Forum
Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 119

Thread: Article: Pedro Florimon's "Limbo Line"

  1. #81
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    8,131
    Twitter
    @rocketpig76
    Like
    49
    Liked 1,606 Times in 833 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    He is young "the wizzard of Oz" was a terrible bat for a decade before he learned to hit. Do you really think San Diego would still make that trade for G Templeton? Play the kid!!!!!!!!!!!
    1. Florimon isn't even in the same league defensively as the Wizard.

    2. Ozzie Smith turned the corner in his age 27 season, posting an OPS+ that Florimon hasn't approached and that hasn't changed thus far this season.

  2. #82
    Twins News Team MVP
    Posts
    6,778
    Like
    890
    Liked 864 Times in 555 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by Reider View Post
    .191 is still below the mendoza line and below average. I"m just stating facts.
    Brian Dozier currently has the highest OPS among full-time American League 2nd baseman- higher than Kinsler, Cano and Kipnis. Zobrist is actually higher (and is a fairly good comp to Dozier at the plate), but he'll only end up playing around 120 games at the position.

    Once his BABIP normalizes, you're going to have one of the top hitting 2nd baseman in the league across the board, statistically speaking. The chances for Florimon to repeat the same at SS, absolutely nil.
    Last edited by jokin; 04-15-2014 at 06:44 PM.

  3. This user likes jokin's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    LaBombo (04-16-2014)

  4. #83
    Senior Member Triple-A Reider's Avatar
    Posts
    377
    Like
    224
    Liked 115 Times in 73 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Brian Dozier currently has the highest OPS among full-time American League 2nd baseman- higher than Kinsler, Cano and Kipnis. Zobrist is actually higher (and is a fairly good comp to Dozier at the plate), but he'll only end up playing around 120 games at the position.

    Once his BABIP normalizes, you're going to have one of the top hitting 2nd baseman in the league across the board, statistically speaking. The chances for Florimon to repeat the same at SS, absolutely nil.
    I'm not disagreeing. I like what Dozier brings to the table. You and Brock can argue with me until you're blue in the face, but .191 will still be below the mendoza line and below average no matter how much you try and convince yourselves otherwise. Anyways, I have a Twins game to watch, cheers.

  5. #84
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    8,131
    Twitter
    @rocketpig76
    Like
    49
    Liked 1,606 Times in 833 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by Reider View Post
    You and Brock can argue with me until you're blue in the face, but .191 will still be below the mendoza line and below average no matter how much you try and convince yourselves otherwise.
    This is what I said:

    Dozier doesn't belong anywhere in this conversation. He has been an above average hitter for a full season now.


    This is what you said:

    Dozier is hitting below the mendoza line this year (.191). Those are not "above average" numbers.


    Dozier is an above average hitter. You're the only person who continues to bring up his batting average as if that is the only attribute that makes a player a good hitter or not.

    Yes, his batting average is low. Every other trait of hitting is well above average, including his overall line as a hitter.

  6. #85
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    268
    Like
    15
    Liked 40 Times in 26 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    Why not give the job to Escobar?
    Same idea. Why not flip the roles of Escobar and Florimon?

  7. #86
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
    Posts
    4,089
    Like
    1,822
    Liked 1,297 Times in 523 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Reider View Post
    .191 is still below the mendoza line and below average. I"m just stating facts.
    Yes, he has a below average batting average.



    The vastly more important fact is that he has been a well above average offensive player.
    Last edited by snepp; 04-15-2014 at 11:02 PM.
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ball… and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
    - Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's

  8. This user likes snepp's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    LaBombo (04-16-2014)

  9. #87
    Senior Member Triple-A Reider's Avatar
    Posts
    377
    Like
    224
    Liked 115 Times in 73 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by snepp View Post
    Yes, he has a below average batting average.



    The vastly more important fact is that he has been a well above average offensive player.
    .180AVG after today's game. Falling even further below the mendoza line! Better stick Nunez in there. LOL

  10. #88
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
    Posts
    6,607
    Like
    3,682
    Liked 3,169 Times in 1,356 Posts
    Are you sure you want to go down the batting average road in a thread about Florimon?
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

  11. This user likes USAFChief's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    LaBombo (04-16-2014)

  12. #89
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    8,131
    Twitter
    @rocketpig76
    Like
    49
    Liked 1,606 Times in 833 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    Are you sure you want to go down the batting average road in a thread about Florimon?
    Fun fact:

    Brian Dozier's lowest single season batting average is .234.

    Pedro Florimon's highest single season batting average is .221.

  13. #90
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    335
    Like
    26
    Liked 51 Times in 35 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Fun fact:

    Brian Dozier's lowest single season batting average is .234.

    Pedro Florimon's highest single season batting average is .221.

    Sure, BUT after today's game, Dozier's batting average is less than twice as high as Florimon's!

    (On a side note--Jose Bautista, center field? His "play" on Florimon's "triple" single-handedly raised Florimon's SLG 50 points for the season.)

  14. This user likes AM.'s post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    ashburyjohn (04-16-2014)

  15. #91
    Senior Member Triple-A Reider's Avatar
    Posts
    377
    Like
    224
    Liked 115 Times in 73 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Fun fact:

    Brian Dozier's lowest single season batting average is .234.

    Pedro Florimon's highest single season batting average is .221.
    Oh I see what you did there..

    Pedro Florimon's batting average last year was .221

    Brian Dozier's batting average this year is .180

    You guys are hilarious. It seems like whenever we get someone good, people want to get rid of them ASAP. Florimon is the best defensive SS we've had in years and people are in a panic in the middle of April to replace him. Dozier had a good year last year and people are talking about trading him away. Wait until June before getting too excited.

  16. #92
    Senior Member Triple-A Reider's Avatar
    Posts
    377
    Like
    224
    Liked 115 Times in 73 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by AM. View Post
    Sure, BUT after today's game, Dozier's batting average is less than twice as high as Florimon's!

    (On a side note--Jose Bautista, center field? His "play" on Florimon's "triple" single-handedly raised Florimon's SLG 50 points for the season.)
    So what do you want to do about it? Send Florimon down to the minors and replace him with the worst defensive SS in the league last year? I think people just need to relax. The Twins are probably going to have to trade for someone better than Nunez (e.g. JJ Hardy) or wait until the off season and sign a SS (e.g. JJ Hardy).

  17. #93
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
    Posts
    2,272
    Like
    241
    Liked 464 Times in 291 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by DJL44 View Post
    Same idea. Why not flip the roles of Escobar and Florimon?
    Good question. I think the answer is Escobar has versatility while Florimon does not. This, I take it, is a key aspect of the Nunez deal. He isn't particularly good at any position, but he has played most of them.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  18. #94
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    8,131
    Twitter
    @rocketpig76
    Like
    49
    Liked 1,606 Times in 833 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by Reider View Post
    You guys are hilarious. It seems like whenever we get someone good, people want to get rid of them ASAP. Florimon is the best defensive SS we've had in years and people are in a panic in the middle of April to replace him. Dozier had a good year last year and people are talking about trading him away. Wait until June before getting too excited.
    You really need to stop rebutting my posts with arguments I haven't made. Refer to the forum rules, that is clearly against TD commenting policy. I have not advocated trading Dozier. Not once. I think it's ridiculous to even consider trading him at this point and I've said as much. If Rosario comes on strong next season and can stick at second, then it's a different argument.

    Florimon may be the best defensive shortstop in years but he's also the worst offensive shortstop we've seen since Juan Castro.

    Combine those two elements and you have a not-very-good baseball player.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reider View Post
    Oh I see what you did there..

    Pedro Florimon's batting average last year was .221

    Brian Dozier's batting average this year is .180
    It's impossible to not see the logical fallacy in this argument.

  19. #95
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
    Posts
    3,588
    Like
    199
    Liked 540 Times in 350 Posts
    Blog Entries
    33
    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    Good question. I think the answer is Escobar has versatility while Florimon does not. This, I take it, is a key aspect of the Nunez deal. He isn't particularly good at any position, but he has played most of them.
    I think the versatility thing is key. Escobar has a major league future as a utility player, while Florimon is a shortstop and shortstop only. If Florimon is optioned, what do the Twins do with him--send him to AA? They want Santana to get reps in Rochester. I would think that if they decide he is a hopeless case with the bat, that they will release him. Escobar and Nunez are both utility guys, but one can slide into being the regular SS and if it doesn't work out, they can give the other guy a chance. I don't see either with having more more upside than Florimon, but at least they can be replacement players at several positions.

  20. This user likes stringer bell's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    cmathewson (04-16-2014)

  21. #96
    Senior Member Double-A
    Posts
    135
    Like
    0
    Liked 14 Times in 12 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2
    The Twins' Steve Lombardozzi was viewed as a light hitting player, but he had a .233 batting average. That would be the Lombo Line!!!!!

  22. This user likes strumdatjag's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    LaBombo (04-16-2014)

  23. #97
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer jimbo92107's Avatar
    Posts
    546
    Like
    0
    Liked 24 Times in 12 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2
    Not quite ready to give up on Florimon. Late last season his stance and decision making started looking better at the plate. This season he got a slow, delayed start because of his appendicitis. I had mine removed a long time ago by a monkey with a dull spoon. Yes, having your appendix removed can screw you up. I was physically useless for about a month, and I wasn't trying to swing a 32-ounce bat suddenly at a major league fastball. Florimon's swing might not be "normal" even for him, until mid-season. A hole in your stomach can do that to you.

  24. These 2 users like jimbo92107's post and want to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    Hosken Bombo Disco (04-16-2014), Reider (04-16-2014)

  25. #98
    Senior Member Double-A
    Posts
    147
    Like
    358
    Liked 46 Times in 26 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    There are 27 or 24 outs for each opposing team in a game (24 if the Twins are ahead after the top of the 9th and assuming the Twins are playing at home). He bats 1/9 of the time. What stats are useful in evaluating his 4-5 AB per game vs. his number of fielding plays during a game? My non-statistical gut tells me his fielding is so good that it out-weighs his poor hitting...if only he could advance the runners by bunts or well placed ground outs, advancing runners. The strikeouts are not acceptable. He needs to immediately quit trying to ever hit home runs and learn how to make useful contact with the pitched baseball, learn how to bunt, learn how to walk, and steal bases. Easier said than done, but hey, today is an off day due to weather...let's practice.. How about incentives for every walk, for every time he advances a runner, for every successful bunt. His fielding is so good, we must have these discussions. Good article and good comments.

  26. #99
    Senior Member Triple-A Reider's Avatar
    Posts
    377
    Like
    224
    Liked 115 Times in 73 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    I have not advocated trading Dozier. Not once. I think it's ridiculous to even consider trading him at this point and I've said as much.
    I know, that's actually something we agree on. At some point we need to keep our good players. I'd say year 4 of our rebuilding phase is a good time to start doing that.

    Florimon may be the best defensive shortstop in years but he's also the worst offensive shortstop we've seen since Juan Castro.

    Combine those two elements and you have a not-very-good baseball player.
    Yeah, I know. I really wish Pedro was a better hitter. We'd have one heck (am I allowed to use that word on here?) of a baseball player if he could hit better.

    It's impossible to not see the logical fallacy in this argument.
    Oh relax Brock. I'm just joking around. I know exactly what Dozier brings to the table. I like him as much as everybody else does. I just wish people would get off of my ass about Florimon already. Everyone knows that he's historically a below average hitter and off to a poor start this season.

    However, you have to admit, he's been pulling his weight the last couple of games. His defense is a given, but he's also made some key contributions offensively. I know it's only a couple of games, but perhaps he's now on his way back to last year's numbers?? Perhaps he'll overshoot those numbers a bit and we will be pleasantly surprised?

  27. #100
    Senior Member Triple-A Reider's Avatar
    Posts
    377
    Like
    224
    Liked 115 Times in 73 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by stringer bell View Post
    I think the versatility thing is key. Escobar has a major league future as a utility player, while Florimon is a shortstop and shortstop only.
    I actually very much disagree with you sir. Florimon is a shortstop because of his skill set. It takes a special person to play the position at a high level and he has that skill set.

    Can you please give me one reason why he couldn't play 2nd or 3rd base?

    Also, if you consider Pedro's speed and arm, and his ability to go back, forward, and side to side for balls (remember that ball earlier this year that Pedro went all the way into foul territory to catch after the strong wind blew it over?) The guy can cover some ground. He has tools to potentially be converted into a corner outfielder?? Maybe I'm wrong, I've never seen him play outfield before, but he seems to get a good read on pop fly's. Combine that with his range and strong arm and I don't see why he couldn't possibly play elsewhere?

    I think the only thing holding Florimon back is his poor hitting. The reason why he's primarily a SS and hasn't been tried anywhere else (e.g. utility role) is because is defensive skill set is superior to most others. The Twins don't have to even attempt to try and use him as a utility player because defensively there's nobody as good or better than him at the moment. SS is where he belongs due to his superior skill set.
    Last edited by Reider; 04-16-2014 at 06:28 PM.

Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
©2014 TwinsCentric, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Interested in advertising with Twins Daily? Click here.