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Thread: Dustin Pedroia- Down and Possibly Out- Drew or....Dozier..... to take his place?

  1. #21
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    Dozier seems to be stepping into the role of vocal leader for this club. His true value may be starting to surpass his statistical value for the Twins.

    Still, I'm open to trading him, as Brock said, Rosario as a 2B is exciting but as a corner OF is not. Of course Rosario and Polanco aren't coming up any time soon and odds are, Dozier's current production tops what they could do. Even if the timing was right though, I like to gamble with my trade assets, and my money is on Dozier increasing his value. He's playing well despite a sub .200 BA, and while SABRmetricly inclined Boston would surely be more interested in his 125 OPS+, it may still serve the Twins well to wait for the average/OBP to get to the .240/.340 range if they were open to trading him. And they likely are not. We all suspect the Twins aren't going to compete, but the team isn't going to trade a budding local celebrity (such dreamy hair!) in April when the team is at .500. It would be a sign of surrender.

  2. #22
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    A trade for Dozier seems unlikely at this point, but it's interesting food for thought. I wouldn't be surprised if there's actually been a token call made already to get the ludicrously high/low opening offers (depending on which side of the deal you are) out of the way. Fenway Park sure would seem to be a great place for Dozier, though.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    The value difference in trading Dozier right now and trading him in July of 2015 is minimal.

    In the meantime, you get a good player on a team that badly needs good players.
    Right, why rush? Let's wait and see who steps up to be the 2B of the future. We have incredible depth in the system and patience is required to maximize these assets and our future roster. IMO, trading Dozier now has absolutely no correlation to how committed the FO is to a rebuild. It is about maximizing assets and constructing the best possible roster for the future.

    Now, if someone blows us away with an offer for Dozier, great. That would make sense in terms of maximizing assets and building a future contender. It would have to be starting pitching or our SS of the future.

  4. #24
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    I don't think you'd be dealing Dozier at peak value. He's had a GREAT start but teams are still going to be wary of him.

    Hold on to him until someone forces you (whether that be Dozier himself or Rosario or whomever) to make a move.

  5. #25
    Senior Member All-Star Winston Smith's Avatar
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    Why would the Sox do this? Drew has a better career slash line and he cost nothing but money. Why give up a good prospect for a player that has had some short term success (seems like everyone is overly excited by a few home runs) but hasn't proven over a long haul he is a major league hitter.
    To the Sox he'd likely become a utility player when Pedroia comes back, is that worth a top prospect?
    This comment brought to you from the Rosedale Mall studio by Hamm's Beer, brewed in the land of sky blue waters.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Double-A scottz's Avatar
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    This seems like a very playtime imagination scenario. I do not see a scenario where Brian Dozier would be traded this season.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Monkeypaws's Avatar
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    Can Beresford play 2nd?

  8. #28
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    I guess I'm one of the few who would like to see this team try to contend now, even if it's unrealistic. You can't keep trading for the future . . . especially with the future. Dozier is under control for multiple years and is our only proven (semi proven really) middle infielder in the system at least at MLB level. He's the only guy who's done it both offensively and defensively at the major league level. Given the years of control I wait to make sure Rosario/Polanco/Santana can hack it at AAA before I even consider trading Dozier. Dozier very much could factor into the next wave of winning which needs to get going sooner than later. Even if the Twins only wing 75-80 this year, I for one am sick and tired of 90 loss seasons and horrid baseball. If they trade away one of their best players I may just turn it off for the year.

    The other problem is he's still fringy as far as value goes. I think the only thing I would even consider him for would be another Span type trade for someone like Alex Meyer or for a top SS. At this point he hasn't proven himself long enough to be as valuable as Span and given his power over last year and beginning of this year along with his defense he has the upside of being more valuable than Span if he continues this through 2014. Lets say he hits 20 homeruns has an OPS of .750 and continues his plus defensive play? Then what's his value 6 months from now? Probably damn near untouchable honestly.

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  10. #29
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    It would be fun to envision the parallel universe of Dozier and Mauer in Fenway in exchange for 4 top 8-10 Boston prospects.

    But Dozier at second right now is working enormously well. I have liked Rosario a lot all along, but he is going to be traded eventually here. I wouldn't do it, but he will be traded.

  11. #30
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    For all those wanting to contend in 16 or 17....do you really think they'll sign a FA or two, to fill in gaps? They have still cut payroll every year (assuming you measure this year based on the new $25MM baseline), and still have not traded a young player for a legit vet. I guess they won't do that, because "who would sign here to play x with such great prospects behind them". Do you really think adding a bunch of rookies next year, assuming any of them are healthy and emotionally stable, will have them be good next year, or even the next? I just don't see it, and at that point, you might as well "only play for the future" as Johan and Torrii put it.
    Lighten up Francis....

  12. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    It would be fun to envision the parallel universe of Dozier and Mauer in Fenway in exchange for 4 top 8-10 Boston prospects.

    But Dozier at second right now is working enormously well. I have liked Rosario a lot all along, but he is going to be traded eventually here. I wouldn't do it, but he will be traded.
    I like Rosario too, in fact I even adopted the son of a gun. However, I'm just not sure enough of a guy with half a season at AA and possible character issues. Still kind of unclear on the "drug of abuse" thing whether it was a mistake or not. We have a young 2B who is playing well defensively and at the plate. I just can't justify trading him especially when I his value could rise dramatically if he continues what he's done now for probably the last 4 months of last year and the first couple weeks this year.

  13. #32
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Monkeypaws's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    It would be fun to envision the parallel universe of Dozier and Mauer in Fenway in exchange for 4 top 8-10 Boston prospects.

    But Dozier at second right now is working enormously well. I have liked Rosario a lot all along, but he is going to be traded eventually here. I wouldn't do it, but he will be traded.
    I could see Dozier being a very good Red Sox 2nd baseman. Scary thought.

  14. #33
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    Respectfully, Crazy Talk.

    BoSox can cast an eye around the League and dream on, but it ain't going to happen.

    My boy Dozier must have found Cuddy's notebook or something, but he's saying all the right things, going about the game (and the business of an extension) the "Twins Way". In this org. that means you're on track to become a Made Man.

    Who could argue with his power so far? If he continues to find his stroke, he'll prove '13 was not a fluke, and get his deal.

    Without Dozier, what does our middle infield look like? Don't wanna go there...
    Feel free to pile on about Suzuki.

  15. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    For all those wanting to contend in 16 or 17....do you really think they'll sign a FA or two, to fill in gaps? They have still cut payroll every year (assuming you measure this year based on the new $25MM baseline), and still have not traded a young player for a legit vet. I guess they won't do that, because "who would sign here to play x with such great prospects behind them". Do you really think adding a bunch of rookies next year, assuming any of them are healthy and emotionally stable, will have them be good next year, or even the next? I just don't see it, and at that point, you might as well "only play for the future" as Johan and Torrii put it.
    Let's just look at the last few years of free agent signings and trades to patch up holes.

    2010 our last good year they got Orlando Hudson and traded for JJ Hardy to patch the middle infield. Pretty successful move if not marred by the asinine trading away of JJ the next season. I don't even care that Gomez has had an awakening in Milwaukee. I was so excited to get JJ only to see him shipped off later. They also traded for Capps as well as brought Pavano back to shore up a youngish rotation.

    2011 . . . THOME!!! That's all really. and damnit Nishioka not much to be said for this year but it was a lot of fun watching Thome even in a crap year.

    2012 . . . despite a crap year they made some nice moves bringing in Doumit, Willingham and even Carroll to some extent was a decent pickup. Burton and Fien were some nice reclamation projects that year too.

    2013. I can't defend much about this year. I can't complain a lot either. There wasn't a lot they could do to make this team better. I think they could have gone after some better free agent or trade for some better pitchers. Correia was an awful signing until he actually turned out to be decent. Pelfrey, I was ok with due to the money and am hopeful he'll figure it out soon here.

    2014. They spent a lot on starting pitching and so far those three have one quality start between them. It's still the beginning of April so we really can't judge any of these yet. They were allegedly still purusing Ervin and Garza as well. Now had they signed one of them instead of Pelfrey, I'd be pretty ecstatic and feel optimistic we could push for a wildcard. The only other thing I would have like to see them do is bring in Stephen Drew, draft pick be damned.

    All this is just my way of saying, yes I do think they will sign guys to plug holes. I don't know if they'll sign a big name guy but they're moving in that direction with Willingham a couple years ago and now with Nolasco. The Twins have changed since moving into the new stadium and shown more of a willingness to sign some free agents. Somewhat out of necessity. I don't think they're going to be players for the Robinson Cano's and Zach Greinke's anytime soon either though and I'm fine with that.

    I think the future is now though honestly. This year may not be amazing but we've already got Dozier and Pinto looking better. Hicks isn't wowing anyone with his numbers but it's a much better start than last year and I am encouraged by his near 1:1 K:BB ratio. We should see Meyer and possibly May by years end in some role. So to me trading away a guy like Dozier at this point is foolish. He is under control for the next five years so even if they don't start competing until 2016 or 2017 like you are saying he'll still be there. If Rosario develops into a competent 2B than we have a great problem. Right now we have what is appearing to be an emerging good 2B with defensive chops and power then a lot of question marks.

  16. #35
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    sorry for the long post

  17. #36
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    halfchest.....in order not to hijack the thread.....I'll just say I hope you are right.
    Lighten up Francis....

  18. #37
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    Would have to listen to any offer.

    But the Sox would have to know the Twins Socks off.

    As others mentioned, I don't seem the stopgap being as expensive as Dozier. Perhaps the Red Sox acquire a Omar Infante or Emilio Bonifacio (Cubs) type of player. I think the Cubs have 3 2B on the roster. Bonifacio, Barney (GG winner), and Valbeuna in addition to having 2 top 10 prospects at AAA in Arismendy Alcantara and Javier Baez. Baez is a SS now, however it doesn't seem like he'll stick at SS and the fact they have Starlin Castro, only 23 years old, a the position. 3B was/is an option, however they have Mike Olt there now and Kris Bryant in AA...and likely call up in Sept. So 2B is definitely a position of plenty for the Cubs.

    So I could see any of those solutions. Cubs would be willing to take a flyer of a prospect by comparison of value to what a team like the Twins would do as in June after the Super 2 date passes they'll want to bring Baez up anyway.

  19. #38
    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    It seems to me that Rosario's future with the Twins depends pretty heavily on where Hicks tops out. If his ceiling is 4th or 5th OF, then Rosario is insurance if disaster befalls Buxton and also likely the next best thing to an offensively qualified corner outfielder to bookend with Arcia.

    Think about it this way: If Rosario is a substantial upgrade over every other potential 2015 corner OF besides Arcia, why would the Twins trade him? And given the marginal nature of those other options, what would the Twins get for Rosario if he's not a substantial upgrade? And his 50 game detour has probably hurt his trade value a bit as well.

    This could all be moot if Rosario plays great defense at second, but with the late start he probably has not yet given the Twins the chance to consider a Dozier trade offer with much confidence that Rosario is the second baseman of 2015 and beyond.
    Last edited by LaBombo; 04-14-2014 at 02:49 PM.

  20. #39
    Two weeks into what looks like a watchable team and posters are trying to trade away the better players on the team. Let's wait until it looks like there is no hope for the team before dumping the players that are helping this team win. I do not want to watch a team filled with minor leaguers again. It hasn't helped the last two years.

    With some improvement by the struggling starters, this team could legitimately approach a .500 season. We need the starters to limit the opposition to 4 runs or less over 6 or 7 innings. The offense seems to have found a way to score some runs.

    The Twins will not go from a 90 loss team to a 90 win team without going through a .500 season. This may be that season. The big prospects are at least a year or two away from contributing at the major league level. Sure they may be called up this year to get their feet wet, but that doesn't mean they will be able to produce at the major league level.

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  22. #40
    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DuluthFan View Post
    Two weeks into what looks like a watchable team and posters are trying to trade away the better players on the team. Let's wait until it looks like there is no hope for the team before dumping the players that are helping this team win. I do not want to watch a team filled with minor leaguers again. It hasn't helped the last two years.
    Nobody is suggesting dumping Dozier, just the possibility that a potential long-term replacement exists in Rosario, freeing the Twins to trade Dozier for something they don't have, like a legit MLB shortstop or at least a strong SS prospect.

    While I don't see the Twins moving Dozier, he's a perfect example of fans being forced to watch an overmatched minor leaguer for half a season and then being rewarded for it the following season with a solid year from an emerging young player.

    Hicks may duplicate that same pattern this season. Pinto's defense may be a work in progress, but I'd rather see him catch 100 games than Suzuki. Does anybody have fond memories of Ron Coomer's 140 games in the 2000 season as the replacement for a demoted Doug Mientkiewicz? Me neither

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