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Thread: Dustin Pedroia- Down and Possibly Out- Drew or....Dozier..... to take his place?

  1. #41
    Senior Member All-Star 70charger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfchest View Post
    sorry for the long post
    Don't apologize; that was great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuluthFan View Post
    Two weeks into what looks like a watchable team and posters are trying to trade away the better players on the team. Let's wait until it looks like there is no hope for the team before dumping the players that are helping this team win. I do not want to watch a team filled with minor leaguers again. It hasn't helped the last two years.
    Hypotheticlly, if the Twins could get an A prospect for Dozier now because of another teams desperation, but have a 75% chance of only getting a C prospect for Dozier three months from now when this team is unwatchable again do you still keep him?

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    "two months into a watchable season, and people want to trade Josh Willingham? He's part of the short and medium term future. He's the only source of power on this roster. Need to hold onto him to increase his value".....those were the days.....
    Lighten up Francis....

  4. #44
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    Hypotheticlly, if the Twins could get an A prospect for Dozier now because of another teams desperation, but have a 75% chance of only getting a C prospect for Dozier three months from now when this team is unwatchable again do you still keep him?
    I do. IMO the way to build a watchable major league team is to accumulate major league players. Trying to build a major league team by constantly getting rid of major league players in favor of prospects is how you spend a couple decades wandering the desert like the KC Royals.
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  6. #45
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    I think this is all totally hypothetical because I believe that there is a great deal of pressure on the front office and on the field staff to win this season.

    Or, at least improve significantly enough to keep people coming to the ballpark after the AS break.

    I just don't see them trading away a young player who is playing well. I don't think that precludes a Willingham or Kubel or Correia or Pelfrey (or probably a few others) from being traded later.

    There may be potential replacements for Dozier but "potential" is the word there and there are still a lot of questions up in the air about those replacements.

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  8. #46
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    I would rather wait and see if Dozier can move back to SS when Rosario comes up. Mauer, Rosario, Dozier and Sano around the IF looks pretty good to me (2015).

  9. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    I think this is all totally hypothetical because I believe that there is a great deal of pressure on the front office and on the field staff to win this season.

    Or, at least improve significantly enough to keep people coming to the ballpark after the AS break.

    I just don't see them trading away a young player who is playing well. I don't think that precludes a Willingham or Kubel or Correia or Pelfrey (or probably a few others) from being traded later.

    There may be potential replacements for Dozier but "potential" is the word there and there are still a lot of questions up in the air about those replacements.
    I also think there's pressure prior to the All Star break. With the baseball universe descending on Minneapolis this summer, I don't think Pohlad wants to be the host with another bungling team 15 games under .500 and having to answer questions (though I think it might be too late, the bed's been made). Well we're currently at .500 ; so far so good, though.

    Agree. Dozier is going nowhere.

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  11. #48
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    I think that it will be smart to trade Dozier (or anyone) for the right return. Look at the Rays' model.

    That said, this particular one is not happening, because Pedroia's injury is actually less serious than Willingham's (not even DL)
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  12. #49
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    There is always the problem of getting the right return.

    But second, one of the things that this club needs now is players with whom fans have developed or are developing some liking and recognition. This club is sadly without that. It was one of the things I was thinking about in the Mauer lightning rod thread -- his is one of the few (only?) names/faces that most fans would recognize -- no wonder he is a lightning rod on a losing team.

    While Dozier doesn't have name recognition in the same manner, he at least played with the ML club for 1+ seasons and he is somewhat charismatic (good interview, good looking, southern friendliness).

    I can envision him becoming a fan favorite. And while that may not be a good baseball reason to keep him, it may well be a good business reason to keep him.

  13. #50
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    I do. IMO the way to build a watchable major league team is to accumulate major league players. Trying to build a major league team by constantly getting rid of major league players in favor of prospects is how you spend a couple decades wandering the desert like the KC Royals.
    This. It would be one thing if Dozier was here on a one year deal, but guys like Brian are the future. I'd be looking at an extension by the end of this season if the play continues. He's controlled into that future team, and an extension can buy out a year or two of FA. Given the 2B talent coming through the system, I'd start thinking about trying him back at SS.

  14. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    There is always the problem of getting the right return.

    But second, one of the things that this club needs now is players with whom fans have developed or are developing some liking and recognition. This club is sadly without that. It was one of the things I was thinking about in the Mauer lightning rod thread -- his is one of the few (only?) names/faces that most fans would recognize -- no wonder he is a lightning rod on a losing team.

    While Dozier doesn't have name recognition in the same manner, he at least played with the ML club for 1+ seasons and he is somewhat charismatic (good interview, good looking, southern friendliness).

    I can envision him becoming a fan favorite. And while that may not be a good baseball reason to keep him, it may well be a good business reason to keep him.
    Don't let Dave St Peter end up making this decision like he (apparently) made a "good business decision" to jettison Hardy for nothing in return and signing Nishi with the intention of expanding the Twins brand to Japan.

  15. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    This. It would be one thing if Dozier was here on a one year deal, but guys like Brian are the future. I'd be looking at an extension by the end of this season if the play continues. He's controlled into that future team, and an extension can buy out a year or two of FA. Given the 2B talent coming through the system, I'd start thinking about trying him back at SS.
    If Dozier can truly hack it SS, I'd be all in favor of an extension, unfortunately, there are very few players who fail at the 2nd most difficult field position, only to come back later and end up playing it competently.

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    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    I can envision him becoming a fan favorite. And while that may not be a good baseball reason to keep him, it may well be a good business reason to keep him.
    The problem is that those PR decisions at some point add to bad business decisions. I think that the majority of the fans would prefer winning vs familiar faces (esp. familiar faces from the dark times.) New guys who play well can become the new fan favorites. A year ago 90% of the Twin Cities (at least the ones who are old enough to remember) thought that Pinto was only a car. Now they know that he is a catcher. And nobody is complaining about Butera being gone (not that Dozier is Butera-like by any means.)
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  17. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    I do. IMO the way to build a watchable major league team is to accumulate major league players. Trying to build a major league team by constantly getting rid of major league players in favor of prospects is how you spend a couple decades wandering the desert like the KC Royals.
    Dead on. I could see if he had one year or maybe even if we only had a couple years but we have five years with the guy and I believe his value will only go up. I guess he's been doing it long enough that yes I believe he is a good defensive 2B with power. That would put him in the top half of 2B. His ceiling is probably more like top 5-10 2B if he continues with what he's done now for about the past 5 months of baseball.

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    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    This. It would be one thing if Dozier was here on a one year deal, but guys like Brian are the future. I'd be looking at an extension by the end of this season if the play continues. He's controlled into that future team, and an extension can buy out a year or two of FA. Given the 2B talent coming through the system, I'd start thinking about trying him back at SS.
    Those things in bold contradict each other...

    Mainly because there is likely better 2B talent coming up the system than Dozier. As far as SS goes, I dare to venture that there is better talent there (in high A and below) than Dozier. Someone like Polanco (A+, whom I have on top of the SS prospect chart) might not pan out at SS (the jury is still out) but if he does not, he will probably top the 2B depth chart in the organization right now as well (with Rosario pretty close). Vielma (A) and Minier (R) are following. Goodrum (A+) is still a question mark and playing 3B exclusively now.

    And to qualify this, the more and more I look at Dozier, the more and more he looks like another former Twins' SS prospect who ended up in a different position: Scott Leius.
    Last edited by Thrylos; 04-14-2014 at 06:20 PM.
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  19. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrylos View Post
    Mainly because there is likely better 2B talent coming up the system than Dozier.
    But that's the problem here. "LIKELY" better talent. None of them is close enough that you can say with definiteness, that they ARE better or when they'll arrive. Rosario is the closest and I'm taking no bets there.

    We are talking right now during the 2014 season about a possible trade -- not sometime down the road. I've been known to rue marketing decisions playing into the baseball ones (Nishioka is a prime example for me). But at this point in time, this team has very few recognizable faces. The Twins are fortunate that Kubel has been playing well because he has some name recognition. Willingham has name recognition but can't stay on the field. Plouffe has some name recognition as well. Pinto, Hicks, Arcia will (hopefully) develop that recognition but it isn't there yet.

    Yes, I'd trade Dozier if the offer blew me away. But that's not going to happen -- trades are seldom that uneven. There is just no reason to trade him at this point in time.

  20. #57
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    But that's the problem here. "LIKELY" better talent. None of them is close enough that you can say with definiteness, that they ARE better or when they'll arrive. Rosario is the closest and I'm taking no bets there.
    Concur.

    I would add my personal opinion that making big league roster moves based on A ball prospects is a really really good way to end up with a bad team now, and a bad team later.

    Prospects are necessary to the health of all teams, but should never be counted on in advance.
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  22. #58
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    I believe that Brian Dozier is exactly the type of player the Twins would want to acquire in trade talks with any team.

    Young... Cost Controlled and getting it done. Trading Willingham makes sense... Trading Dozier makes no sense unless the Sox give up Bogaerts in return.

    I also believe... We don't officially have 2B depth until Rosario actually gets to the majors and performs.

    Trading a young Dozier for younger unproven players is doing the same thing my cat does... Spinning around in circles... Chasing its tail.
    A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    Concur.

    I would add my personal opinion that making big league roster moves based on A ball prospects is a really really good way to end up with a bad team now, and a bad team later.

    Prospects are necessary to the health of all teams, but should never be counted on in advance.
    How about A+, AA and AAA prospects? It has definitely been painful with the vacuum left at the top of the order, but it certainly appears that Meyer is going to work out. If you can get someone who has performed similarly at AA or AAA and "projects" well, isn't it the same kind of "no pain/no gain" type of move, as well, only less of a risk than the Span trade was?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    I believe that Brian Dozier is exactly the type of player the Twins would want to acquire in trade talks with any team.

    Young... Cost Controlled and getting it done. Trading Willingham makes sense... Trading Dozier makes no sense unless the Sox give up Bogaerts in return.

    I also believe... We don't officially have 2B depth until Rosario actually gets to the majors and performs.

    Trading a young Dozier for younger unproven players is doing the same thing my cat does... Spinning around in circles... Chasing its tail.
    Why would the Red Sox trade Bogaerts for Dozier, makes no sense? We traded Span and Revere for "young, unproven players", I'd hardly call that tail-chasing. And I would argue that this sort of deal is much more responsible, as the Twins have far more potential depth at 2nd than we had in CF.
    Last edited by jokin; 04-14-2014 at 08:07 PM.

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