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Thread: Article: Why is Joe Mauer Such a Lightning Rod?

  1. #101
    Senior Member Triple-A Jerr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    Yeah, but again, most of that was a product of his high avg. His iso% are usually below .150. And only one year did he finish top 10 in doubles (2010). He's finished top 10 in singles 3x.
    So, now the argument turns to "only finished" in the top ten?

    Amazing

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  3. #102
    Senior Member Triple-A Jerr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crarko View Post
    So Nick, has your question been satisfactorily answered?

  4. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerr View Post
    So, now the argument turns to "only finished" in the top ten?

    Amazing
    I think you misread his post Jerr.

    He didn't say, "Mauer only finished in the top 10."

    He said, "Mauer only finished in the top 10 one year."

  5. #104
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    Just saw a tweet from Andrew Walter (Twins Fan From Afar) pointing out this Mackey article:

    http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/M...eally_is040914


    It adds some perspective on Mauer's offensive stats. But also points out the longevity of those players. And, except for Boggs, it is hard to ignore the SB numbers.

  6. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerr View Post
    And for being the BEST Twin for those years, despite his injuries.
    This is more surprising that relevant but, according to WAR (with all it's flaws) Mauer has been the best Twins only 4 times and only the 2010 team was really, really good. Depending on the year, quite a few Twins were better than him - Perkins, Baker, Santana, Pavano, Cuddy, Hunter, Radke, Silva, Bartlett ...

  7. #106
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by savvyspy View Post
    I don't think anyone ever said he wasn't a solid hitter with an elite swing. For me it's only about the money to the extent of what you get for the money.
    Mauer only is truly elite at one thing, getting on base.
    So congratulations, Joe. You are elite at the most important thing in baseball.

    I cannot understand how people are so damned dumb not to see the statistics drawings them in the face. This isn't buried in a basement stuff, this is commonly available stuff.

    Getting on base, good. Not getting in base, bad.

    Again, people who criticize Mauer just don't bother to understand the modern game.

  8. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    So congratulations, Joe. You are elite at the most important thing in baseball.
    But not the *only* thing in baseball.

  9. #108
    Senior Member Triple-A Jerr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Brooks View Post
    I think you misread his post Jerr.

    He didn't say, "Mauer only finished in the top 10."

    He said, "Mauer only finished in the top 10 one year."
    No, I got that....but are we now debating "in the top ten" ??? As to measuring his productivity???

    Name a better Twin in Mauer's years.....

    I just struggle with all the 'ripping" of him...I can find fault, but who would I replace him with?

    And as to living in Fla. ??? With his money, who wouldn't????

  10. #109
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by savvyspy View Post
    I don't think anyone ever said he wasn't a solid hitter with an elite swing. For me it's only about the money to the extent of what you get for the money.
    Why does the money matter so much?

    edit: So he's a little overpaid, bfd

  11. #110
    Twins Moderator All-Star ChiTownTwinsFan's Avatar
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    Sometimes I wonder if this Mauer debate is entertainment vs sport. Maybe to some he's not worth the $23mil/year because he's not 'entertaining' enough (no fire, boring personality) and I'd buy into that. But I think he's worth it as a baseball athlete and what he brings to the sport. Not sure if that relates or not, but it's kind of how I think of it.

  12. #111
    Senior Member Triple-A Jerr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    This is more surprising that relevant but, according to WAR (with all it's flaws) Mauer has been the best Twins only 4 times and only the 2010 team was really, really good. Depending on the year, quite a few Twins were better than him - Perkins, Baker, Santana, Pavano, Cuddy, Hunter, Radke, Silva, Bartlett ...
    Overall, for those years...and I have no stats to back it up, but I will start with 3 batting titles

  13. #112
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    Yeah, but again, most of that was a product of his high avg. His iso% are usually below .150. And only one year did he finish top 10 in doubles (2010). He's finished top 10 in singles 3x.
    I fail to see how having a high average or being in the top 3 in singles is a bad thig, especially when I show that he consistently hits more than 30 doubles every year. My point was he is not just a singles hitter. But hitting singles and taking walks are not bad things, right?
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

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  15. #113
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    But not the *only* thing in baseball.
    Only, no. MOST IMPORTANT, yes.

    I wish people didn't suck so hard at numbers. Math is not your enemy, folks. Embrace it.

  16. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerr View Post
    No, I got that....but are we now debating "in the top ten" ??? As to measuring his productivity???

    Name a better Twin in Mauer's years.....

    I just struggle with all the 'ripping" of him...I can find fault, but who would I replace him with?

    And as to living in Fla. ??? With his money, who wouldn't????
    Well then I think you are taking it out of context.

    It didn't seem to me he was using the "top 10" to rip Mauer, but to point out that he's not quite the doubles machine that cmat was suggesting, as opposed to singles where he was more frequently in the top 10.

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  18. #115
    Senior Member Triple-A Jerr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    This is more surprising that relevant but, according to WAR (with all it's flaws) Mauer has been the best Twins only 4 times and only the 2010 team was really, really good. Depending on the year, quite a few Twins were better than him - Perkins, Baker, Santana, Pavano, Cuddy, Hunter, Radke, Silva, Bartlett ...
    And which of those players would you keep instead of Mauer??? Today????

  19. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerr View Post
    No, I got that....but are we now debating "in the top ten" ??? As to measuring his productivity???

    Name a better Twin in Mauer's years.....

    I just struggle with all the 'ripping" of him...I can find fault, but who would I replace him with?

    And as to living in Fla. ??? With his money, who wouldn't????
    I don't think anyone (at least not me) doesn't accept that he's been the best player from 2009-today. (Santana was the better player from 04-08). But I'm not sure that's the real issue. And I am glad he's a Twin and I hope he goes into the HOF. But he is a frustrating player to watch for several reasons that have been mentioned.

  20. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    Why does the money matter so much?

    edit: So he's a little overpaid, bfd
    Yeah the money is a ZERO issue.
    If we were right up against payroll budget, then I could see the argument.
    But as it is we are not even coming close to spending all the way to our budget.

  21. #118
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    I fail to see how having a high average or being in the top 3 in singles is a bad thig, especially when I show that he consistently hits more than 30 doubles every year. My point was he is not just a singles hitter. But hitting singles and taking walks are not bad things, right?

    But part of it is what we BELIEVE he should be. We see that 6'5" frame, powerfully built and it is just hard to believe that he can't/doesn't hit more home runs.

    It's a little bit mind-boggling.

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  23. #119
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    But not the *only* thing in baseball.
    Right. So there are maybe three guys who get on base at Mauer's rate and also hit a lot of homers. So your criticism is that he's not one of the three best players in all of baseball. I think you need to reset your standards.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  24. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Only, no. MOST IMPORTANT, yes.

    I wish people didn't suck so hard at numbers. Math is not your enemy, folks. Embrace it.
    C'mon Brock. Most people haven't been insulting others.

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