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Thread: Article: Twins Acquire Infielder Eduardo Nunez From Yankees

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobi0040 View Post
    MLB had him at 14 overall and our 7th best pitcher.

    Either way, I think the Twins need to stop tinkering with this position and sign or trade for an actual answer here. It is unlikely that the answer is in our system, in my opinion.

    I am not saying that I would not want to see Santana given a ton of reps and I am one that would put up with a few more errors or few extra balls getting through in exchange for a guy that will get 30-40 more hits with additional extra base hits (Santana). But I don't see the Twins putting up with any inconsistency defensively at this position.
    What? MLB has 10 pitchers in the Twins top 20 and don't include Tonkin, the Jones's or Kris Johnson, all of whom were more likely to contribute more to the major league club than Sulbaran would have. I never saw Sulbaran ever listed on the mlb.com list, if that's the one you're referring to. He was never on the Dodger list, it seems unlikely that he would have been that high on the better-prospect-Twins-list.

    I agree with your conclusion on the SS situation. It's been a blind spot with the club in terms of building depth, recognizing value and talent and developing MLB-caliber quality for the entire 21st Century, I still remember asking a friend about the details after the announcement of the Delmon for Garza trade.....

    Me- "What else did we get?".....
    Friend- "Brendan Harris and Jason Pridie"....
    Me- "What?!? All we got was MI depth? We got robbed!"......
    Friend- "You don't want to know the rest of the trade....."


    Regarding the defense vs. offense debate, Gardy had publicly admitted that the hitting from every position is now the new priority.

    Regarding Santana, if they do put Nunez at SS in Roc., there's no reason that Santana can't get his reps in NB. Both players can use all the reps they can get.

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  3. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    What? MLB has 10 pitchers in the Twins top 20 and don't include Tonkin, the Jones's or Kris Johnson, all of whom were more likely to contribute more to the major league club than Sulbaran would have. I never saw Sulbaran ever listed on the mlb.com list, if that's the one you're referring to. He was never on the Dodger list, it seems unlikely that he would have been that high on the better-prospect-Twins-list.

    I agree with your conclusion on the SS situation. It's been a blind spot with the club in terms of building depth, recognizing value and talent and developing MLB-caliber quality for the entire 21st Century, I still remember asking a friend about the details after the announcement of the Delmon for Garza trade.....

    Me- "What else did we get?".....
    Friend- "Brendan Harris and Jason Pridie"....
    Me- "What?!? All we got was MI depth? We got robbed!"......
    Friend- "You don't want to know the rest of the trade....."


    Regarding the defense vs. offense debate, Gardy had publicly admitted that the hitting from every position is now the new priority.

    Regarding Santana, if they do put Nunez at SS in Roc., there's no reason that Santana can't get his reps in NB. Both players can use all the reps they can get.
    Go to "20 by team" and pick the Twins. He is 14th overall, 7th pitcher.

    When the Twins give a kid like Santana a leash like they gave Lexi Casilla , Punto, or Florimon, I will start believing offense out of the short stop is a priority.

    http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2013/

  4. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobi0040 View Post
    Go to "20 by team" and pick the Twins. He is 14th overall, 7th pitcher.

    When the Twins give a kid like Santana a leash like they gave Lexi Casilla , Punto, or Florimon, I will start believing offense out of the short stop is a priority.

    http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2013/
    That was for 2013. Here's 2014, Sulbaran no longer made the cut on the updated version:

    http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2014/

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  6. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    That was for 2013. Here's 2014, Sulbaran no longer made the cut on the updated version:

    http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2014/
    You are right. I find it odd that a 2.96 ERA in his first year would hurt his value. Or that 6+ guys would overtake him.

  7. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobi0040 View Post
    I find it odd that a 2.96 ERA in his first year would hurt his value. Or that 6+ guys would overtake him.
    You're putting far too much weight on ERA...

  8. #146
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobi0040 View Post
    You are right. I find it odd that a 2.96 ERA in his first year would hurt his value. Or that 6+ guys would overtake him.
    If you'd seen him in spring training, you might understand. He couldn't sprint from foul pole to foul pole without throwing up. Too much of Momma's cooking in the offseason.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  9. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobi0040 View Post
    Pushing Florimon has to be the objective. No way our scouts looked at Nunez and thought Gardy would put up with his defense.

    If you take a step back, this is really a silly, very short-sighted move. First, trading for Nunez is not going to make Pedro an MLB quality hitter. Nothing will. Second, in a year in which we are not going to compete, trading your 5th or 6th best pitching prospect for a guy that you think has a snowballs chance at pushing a below average SS....is just foolish.

    I get that we may have doubts about MS, but his ERA was a full run lower than Berrios last year. Is it crazy to think that he may not pan out as a 5th starter or reliever at some point? I have also heard the logic here that well we got him for Drew so who cares.....just because we fleeced the Dodgers doesn't mean we should turn around and give the guy away.
    Florimon is a great defensive SS but he is there basically by default.

    " No way our scouts looked at Nunez and thought Gardy would put up with his defense"

    Are these the same scout's that thought Nishioki was a ML defensive SS? Actually, I don't know if Nunez is as bad a defensive SS as his reputation. At one point, he was considered Jeter's heir apparent & the Yankees refused to include him in a trade for Cliff Lee.

    I think it's worth taking a chance on Nunez. Sulbaran's stats are better than his potential (IMHO) & his upside is a LH relief pitcher.

  10. #148
    Senior Member Triple-A Reider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrylos View Post
    Never said that. Matter of fact this is what I said about them defensively (from here)
    No. It was in a previous thread. You said that Escobar was a better hitter than Florimon, then said that Escobar's glove is just as good, then in brackets you said (probably better) or something along those lines (I am just paraphrasing). You are right about Escobar's hitting, but Escobar is not as good or better than Florimon defensively.

    Before the season started you claimed that Gibson was better than Deduno, when Deduno was arguably the Twins best starting pitcher (or 2nd best), while Gibson couldn't even hack it at the MLB level. This year is different. Gibson looks just fine and Deduno is struggling. Your post would have made more sense to me if you said it after Gibson's first start this year, but you didn't.

    My point is that you may not be wrong about Vielma. I haven't seen the guy play yet. But when you go making claims that Escobar is just as good defensively if not better than Florimon, it completely discredits your eye for talent. In other words, I am going to take your claim that Vielma's defense ("glove") is already better than Florimon's with a large grain of salt until he proves it at the MLB level. But I do hope you are right and I hope Vielma can hit too. We need a guy who can do both.
    Last edited by Reider; 04-09-2014 at 09:42 PM.

  11. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobi0040 View Post
    Pushing Florimon has to be the objective. No way our scouts looked at Nunez and thought Gardy would put up with his defense.

    If you take a step back, this is really a silly, very short-sighted move. First, trading for Nunez is not going to make Pedro an MLB quality hitter. Nothing will. Second, in a year in which we are not going to compete, trading your 5th or 6th best pitching prospect for a guy that you think has a snowballs chance at pushing a below average SS....is just foolish.

    I get that we may have doubts about MS, but his ERA was a full run lower than Berrios last year. Is it crazy to think that he may not pan out as a 5th starter or reliever at some point? I have also heard the logic here that well we got him for Drew so who cares.....just because we fleeced the Dodgers doesn't mean we should turn around and give the guy away.
    Are you talking about the same Gardy that I've seen place almost zero emphasis on defense the last 5 years?

  12. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Brooks View Post
    Are you talking about the same Gardy that I've seen place almost zero emphasis on defense the last 5 years?
    If we had zero emphasis on defense, escobar or santana would be at short. plain and simple.

  13. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobi0040 View Post
    If we had zero emphasis on defense, escobar or santana would be at short. plain and simple.
    I'm pretty sure I said almost.

    For every Florimon at SS there is a Bartlett in LF, a Delmon Young in LF even though he made so much more sense in RF, getting Hardy run out of town, putting Revere's elite range in a corner OF because he didn't want to hurt Span's feelings, etc., etc., etc.

  14. #152
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobi0040 View Post
    I think the trade comp is difficult. The trade involved 9 players and 3 teams. So to say Didi for Bauer or Choo is not exactly accurate. Also, Bauer was and is a huge head case the D-Backs clearly factored into their trade. And Choo was a one year rental who was going to hit free agency as a Boras client.

    I do agree that trades on the chat boards are easier than reality, but it seems to me the Twins could do a better job of finding teams with depth in areas we don't have any, and vice versa.
    Sorry about dragging this discussion back out but I just read the responses.

    I did make the argument that the Arizona Cleveland Cincinatti deal was proof that Didi Gregarious would come with a high price tag.

    In response... It has been stated that Didi still wouldn't cost us much to acquire.

    The reasoning was that I had over valued Bauer for a number of reasons listed in subsequent posts and one year of Choo to a team thinking they had a legit WS shot...

    Therefore Didi was over valued by me... And would be available to acquire by the Twins at a reasonable price.

    I've thought about it... I am going to assume that I was wrong and that Didi isn't high value because Bauer wasn't high value. I will come over to the opposite side of the argument...

    Now that I'm here... On this side of the fence...

    I'd like the Twins to take the trade pieces that could acquire a lesser valued Didi and use them to acquire the lesser valued Bauer!!!
    Last edited by Riverbrian; 04-11-2014 at 02:32 PM.
    A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

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