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Thread: Article: Twins Acquire Infielder Eduardo Nunez From Yankees

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobi0040 View Post
    Maybe a possibility. But Terry Ryan does not seem likely to move a pitching prospect for utility infield depth. MS had a sub 3.00 era and was by any count the 5th to 7th best pitching prospect in our system.
    Highly unlikely that he would do that. I'm guessing he's kicking himself for not making the exact same deal with KC for Emilio Bonifacio, though

  2. #122
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    I'm not saying I expect Santana to start (or that I expect him to stay down)-I just think you're linking two unrelated things. Nunez' bat and theoretical ability to play the INF has value on a major league roster, regardless of who is starting.

    I guess I'm not seeing the compelling evidence that this means you can't swap Florimon and Santana the same way you'd have been able to without Nunez' presence, or why the Twins would have made this move now rather than anytime in the month prior or month after.

    That's fine though, we can agree to disagree . I was just wondering why you were so certain that this meant something with Santana.

  3. #123
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    James Beresford > Eduardo Nunez

    That is a legit possibility. I guess it is very likely that Nunez is a slightly better tradeable asset than Sulbaran. That makes the deal, on its own, a good one.

  4. #124
    Junior Member Rookie SouthDakotaFarmer's Avatar
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    Here's a wild thought. Let's see if our pitchers can hit over the Mendoza and have Nunez (or ANYBODY else DH for Flory) Okay, I'm obviously kidding.

    Going to my first game since last year at this time. (as a farmer it's hard to drive 6 hours over here...field timing). I'll be the handsome 30 yr old A's, yes the A's are my 2nd favorite team / Twins fan 3 rows above the front of the A's dugout. I'll will most likely be loud and wildly cheering both teams simultaneously. I hope it's a 9-8 9th inning finish. Don't care who wins.

    PROMOTE DANNY SANTANA, please!

  5. #125
    Senior Member Triple-A Reider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrylos View Post
    Vielma's glove is already better than Florimon's. I kid you not.
    Says the guy who thinks Escobar is better defensively than Florimon.

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  7. #126
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reider View Post
    Says the guy who thinks Escobar is better defensively than Florimon.
    Never said that. Matter of fact this is what I said about them defensively (from here)

    Noted that Escobar's defense at SS is close to Florimon's as far as UZR/150 and RZR are concerned, but he is making fewer errors than Florimon.
    and talking about Escobar's best position (and that was before he got the SS Gold Glove in Venezuela; just ignore the Dozier bit for the sake of this argument) :

    Both Dozier and Escobar do not make many errors. UZR/150 does not like Dozier and Escobar in 2B and 3B, but likes Escobar at SS. Revized Zone Rating has Dozier near the MLB top at second base and Escobar above average at both 2B and SS (but not that great at 3B).
    Which basically is reciting facts. Did not say "Better" or "Worse", just compared facts as far as these 2 guys go. And my argument is that Escobar will be a better overall SS for the Twins than Florimon, because they are close on defense and Escobar is better with the bat already and has better potential.
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  8. #127
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    "Lots of defensive metrics out there and some contradict each other."

    I read that somewhere.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

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  10. #128
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrylos View Post
    Never said that. Matter of fact this is what I said about them defensively (from here)



    and talking about Escobar's best position (and that was before he got the SS Gold Glove in Venezuela; just ignore the Dozier bit for the sake of this argument) :



    Which basically is reciting facts. Did not say "Better" or "Worse", just compared facts as far as these 2 guys go. And my argument is that Escobar will be a better overall SS for the Twins than Florimon, because they are close on defense and Escobar is better with the bat already and has better potential.
    Fair enough, but you can't pretend that the facts you cite don't carry some judgement. You could have cited the fact that Florimon lead the majors in chances and putouts last year. But you chose not to. Of course Escobar makes fewer errors when he has an order of magnitude fewer chances. You could have cited that he ranks in the top 5 among shortstops in many range metrics. Because these metrics are rate stats and not counting stats, presumably Escobar would be up there as well if he is better. He isn't even in the top 30.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  11. #129
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    The quotes coming from the Twins seem to indicate they view him as a potential replacement for Florimon, rather than as a utility guy. Whether that works is doubtful but I dont think they got him with utility guy in mind.
    How much of that is managing through the media? Everyone smiled when he got a hit immediately after the trade was announced. Some think the trade's main objective is to light a fire under Florimon. I don't know if it's true, but it won't be the first time the Twins managed through the media.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  12. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    How much of that is managing through the media? Everyone smiled when he got a hit immediately after the trade was announced. Some think the trade's main objective is to light a fire under Florimon. I don't know if it's true, but it won't be the first time the Twins managed through the media.
    I don't know.

    But I'm skeptical that "hey, look, get more hits or you'll lose your job" can actually result in more hits.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

  13. #131
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    I don't know.

    But I'm skeptical that "hey, look, get more hits or you'll lose your job" can actually result in more hits.
    I agree. If they're doing it, it is not likely to be successful. But it sure seems like they are doing it. Berardino had an interview with Florimon before camp and the kid said they told him he had to earn a job and it would be a three-way competition, etc. This despite the fact that he had clearly beat out Escobar and Santana is raw to say the least. Now they acquire a guy who is not even as good as Escobar and pretend as though he's a candidate to take Florimon's job.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  14. #132
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    I agree. If they're doing it, it is not likely to be successful. But it sure seems like they are doing it. Berardino had an interview with Florimon before camp and the kid said they told him he had to earn a job and it would be a three-way competition, etc. This despite the fact that he had clearly beat out Escobar and Santana is raw to say the least. Now they acquire a guy who is not even as good as Escobar and pretend as though he's a candidate to take Florimon's job.
    I think the most likely explanation is they realize Florimon is never going to hit enough to be an asset and instead of taking actual steps to fix the problem, they are throwing cheap possibilities (including bringing in Bartlett) against the wall hoping something sticks. I also think its obvious they don't view Escobar as an everyday SS, an opinion I share.

    My bet is Nunez is the Twins starting SS before May 1st, but his tenure will be short lived as well.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

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  16. #133
    This going to sound like I am beating a dead horse but I really hope the Twins are just waiting till after the draft to sign Drew because none of the candidates including Santana inspire confidence in me that we have a future big league ss that will be ready soon.

  17. #134
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    Why would Drew sign here after the draft, and not where he can win and make as much money? Not. Gonna. Happen.
    Lighten up Francis....

  18. #135
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    Why would Drew sign here after the draft, and not where he can win and make as much money? Not. Gonna. Happen.
    I read an interview with Joe Maddon somewhere and he outlined 5 phases a player goes through after reaching the Show, and it roughly goes like this

    1. I got called up!
    2. This is hard!
    3. I'm doing ok!
    4. I can get rich!
    5. I want a ring before I retire.

    Drew turned 31 last month. I think, if Maddon's outline is accurate, Drew is still in phase 4.

    Besides all that, June 5 isn't far away. If the Twins make the best offer, and can keep there head above water until then, winning might not be such a concern anyway.

  19. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    Why would Drew sign here after the draft, and not where he can win and make as much money? Not. Gonna. Happen.
    Is this not the case for the Twins (at least presently) with most FAs? Boras realizes he is not going to get the terms he wants as long as there is draft pick attached. Therefore, he is going to wait it out. The market will be determined for Drew in June. An injury on the right team is still a good bet to improve Drew's marketability.

  20. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    I agree. If they're doing it, it is not likely to be successful. But it sure seems like they are doing it. Berardino had an interview with Florimon before camp and the kid said they told him he had to earn a job and it would be a three-way competition, etc. This despite the fact that he had clearly beat out Escobar and Santana is raw to say the least. Now they acquire a guy who is not even as good as Escobar and pretend as though he's a candidate to take Florimon's job.
    Pushing Florimon has to be the objective. No way our scouts looked at Nunez and thought Gardy would put up with his defense.

    If you take a step back, this is really a silly, very short-sighted move. First, trading for Nunez is not going to make Pedro an MLB quality hitter. Nothing will. Second, in a year in which we are not going to compete, trading your 5th or 6th best pitching prospect for a guy that you think has a snowballs chance at pushing a below average SS....is just foolish.

    I get that we may have doubts about MS, but his ERA was a full run lower than Berrios last year. Is it crazy to think that he may not pan out as a 5th starter or reliever at some point? I have also heard the logic here that well we got him for Drew so who cares.....just because we fleeced the Dodgers doesn't mean we should turn around and give the guy away.

  21. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobi0040 View Post
    Pushing Florimon has to be the objective. No way our scouts looked at Nunez and thought Gardy would put up with his defense.

    If you take a step back, this is really a silly, very short-sighted move. First, trading for Nunez is not going to make Pedro an MLB quality hitter. Nothing will. Second, in a year in which we are not going to compete, trading your 5th or 6th best pitching prospect for a guy that you think has a snowballs chance at pushing a below average SS....is just foolish.

    I get that we may have doubts about MS, but his ERA was a full run lower than Berrios last year. Is it crazy to think that he may not pan out as a 5th starter or reliever at some point? I have also heard the logic here that well we got him for Drew so who cares.....just because we fleeced the Dodgers doesn't mean we should turn around and give the guy away.
    I agree with the general thrust of your post, but a couple thoughts:

    It has been widely reported that the Twins scouts have been following Nunez and acquiring about his availability for years running.

    I think you're overrating Sulbaran as the Twins 5th or 6th best pitching prospect. I can rattle off 5-7 pitchers just in AAA and AA that have a much better chance at being effective front end/back end starters and/or relievers than Sulbaran. And then there's another handful below that level, Berrios, Stewart, Gonsalves, Thorpe and more, that project better than MS. He's very tiny in stature, which doesn't portend starting is in his future and to compound this, he really hurt his chances by showing up to camp overweight. The Twins got this one right in selling him at his likely highest speculative value, in exchange for a 4 year major league SS. Given the opportunity, Nunez can resuscitate his career, giving the Twins yet another chance to trade up from the originial Butera trade.

  22. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    I agree with the general thrust of your post, but a couple thoughts:

    It has been widely reported that the Twins scouts have been following Nunez and acquiring about his availability for years running.

    I think you're overrating Sulbaran as the Twins 5th or 6th best pitching prospect. I can rattle off 5-7 pitchers just in AAA and AA that have a much better chance at being effective front end/back end starters and/or relievers than Sulbaran. And then there's another handful below that level, Berrios, Stewart, Gonsalves, Thorpe and more, that project better than MS. He's very tiny in stature, which doesn't portend starting is in his future and to compound this, he really hurt his chances by showing up to camp overweight. The Twins got this one right in selling him at his likely highest speculative value, in exchange for a 4 year major league SS. Given the opportunity, Nunez can resuscitate his career, giving the Twins yet another chance to trade up from the originial Butera trade.
    MLB had him at 14 overall and our 7th best pitcher.

    Either way, I think the Twins need to stop tinkering with this position and sign or trade for an actual answer here. It is unlikely that the answer is in our system, in my opinion.

    I am not saying that I would not want to see Santana given a ton of reps and I am one that would put up with a few more errors or few extra balls getting through in exchange for a guy that will get 30-40 more hits with additional extra base hits (Santana). But I don't see the Twins putting up with any inconsistency defensively at this position.

  23. #140
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    This whole thing is starting to give me a headache. Having said that I don't even know what I would do if I was the GM. Here are a few things that I do know: I don't trade any decent pitching prospect for org. depth. If you want to make this trade, fine but call Nunez up and put him at short and let him sink or swim. I don't buy the argument that his poor defense means the Twins won't play him at short - they sold out long ago to mediocre fielders and now have a whole team of them.

    No way Santana's playing time in AAA should be effected as he is our last prayer for a real long term answer at short. My first move would be to have given E. Escobar a month starting at short just to see what would happen - its maybe a long shot but perhaps our answer is in the dugout sitting on the bench. I've been against signing Drew this whole time but if they are this desperate, time to re-think. Hell, for all we know, they've tried to sign Drew and he is not interested at any price.

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