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Thread: Time to sign Stephen Drew

  1. #21
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Exactly. The big teams are playing chess on Drew in just this way. If you are a team like the Twins, your chess move was signing him in March-especially when Florimon went down with the appendectomy, by June you'll be checkmated by at least a half dozen other teams for Drew's services.
    Yup, a team like the Twins is kind of in no-man's land right now. Not a lot of sense in giving up the pick for just a single year, and not likely to have much leverage post-draft when there may be more attractive playoff-bound teams calling.
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  2. #22
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe A. Preusser View Post
    Too early to make a knee jerk reaction...but boy am I coming around fast. Maybe hold out until after the draft?
    It's not a knee jerk reaction. Going into the season, Florimon had south of a 5% chance of posting an acceptable OPS. The fact that he's not doing it is the opposite of shocking.

    Imagine the (quite valid) consternation over Suzuki put toward someone even more deserving.

  3. #23
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snepp View Post
    Yup, a team like the Twins is kind of in no-man's land right now. Not a lot of sense in giving up the pick for just a single year, and not likely to have much leverage post-draft when there may be more attractive playoff-bound teams calling.
    Yeah. Yeah. At this point, I'm surprised Detroit hasn't picked him up. It doesn't make sense for the Twins to sign him, as unfortunate as that is.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Triple-A Reider's Avatar
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    Based on what I have seen so far, Florimon has done a great job defensively, but is absolutely painful to watch at the plate. I'm not sure if it's due to a late start at spring training, a slow start to the regular season, or if his hitting is going to take a step back this year.

    As painful as he is to watch at the plate, I'd like to give him a couple of months and see how things are going once we get into warmer weather and he has a chance to get into a groove. This is not to say that the Twins should not be looking to improve their team. I think it only makes sense that the Twins pay close attention to Drew's availability / situation and perhaps other trade options etc.. I just think we should give him more than 6 games given the circumstances (late spring start, strong defensive play, the fact that the Twins are scoring lots of runs).

    I don't think we need to panic yet, but I do agree with keeping close tabs on things and considering all of our options as the season goes on. I'm not against making some kind of move if he is still this painful to watch at the end of May.
    Last edited by Reider; 04-06-2014 at 07:32 PM.

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  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reider View Post
    Based on what I have seen so far, Florimon has done a great job defensively, but is absolutely painful to watch at the plate. I'm not sure if it's due to a late start at spring training, a slow start to the regular season, or if his hitting is going to take a step back this year.

    As painful as he is to watch at the plate, I'd like to give him a couple of months and see how things are going once we get into warmer weather and he has a chance to get into a groove. This is not to say that the Twins should not be looking to improve their team. I think it only makes sense that the Twins pay close attention to Drew's availability / situation and perhaps other trade options etc.. I just think we should give him more than 6 games given the circumstances (late spring start, strong defensive play, the fact that the Twins are scoring lots of runs).

    I don't think we need to panic yet, but I do agree with keeping close tabs on things and considering all of our options as the season goes on. I'm not against making some kind of move if he is still this painful to watch at the end of May.
    Well if you want to wait a couple of months to evaluate his bat, that is fine I guess, (though I'm not sure what else he has left to show you), however bear in mind that at that point Drew is no longer an option.
    If they target Drew it would have to be soon, because the closer it gets to the draft, the harder it will be to sign him.

  7. #26
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reider View Post
    Based on what I have seen so far, Florimon has done a great job defensively, but is absolutely painful to watch at the plate. I'm not sure if it's due to a late start at spring training, a slow start to the regular season, or if his hitting is going to take a step back this year.

    As painful as he is to watch at the plate, I'd like to give him a couple of months and see how things are going once we get into warmer weather and he has a chance to get into a groove. This is not to say that the Twins should not be looking to improve their team. I think it only makes sense that the Twins pay close attention to Drew's availability / situation and perhaps other trade options etc.. I just think we should give him more than 6 games given the circumstances (late spring start, strong defensive play, the fact that the Twins are scoring lots of runs).

    I don't think we need to panic yet, but I do agree with keeping close tabs on things and considering all of our options as the season goes on. I'm not against making some kind of move if he is still this painful to watch at the end of May.
    Honest question. Where and why do you expect Florimon to improve?

    He's good defensively, not going to improve much there.

    He's bad offensively and has been his entire career. He actually was a WORSE hitter as 2013 progressed. He's 27 years old.

    What improvement does anyone see in him as a player?

  8. #27
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    If it wasn't a deep draft I would be more willing to give up a second round pick for Drew but given signing him doesn't help us make the playoffs I don't see giving up the lottery shot of a second round pick for him.

    Once we don't lose the pick I would hope the Twins go hard after him because if they can get him by paying more than they should to get him hopefully they can get value for him somewhere down the road.

  9. #28
    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    So wait, you're saying the offense is just fine, so let's minimally improve the offense and hurt the defense and the pitchers? Not sure I'd jump into that decision.

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  11. #29
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    Florimon just cannot hit. As MLB pitchers see him more, I think it's only going to get worse because he has so many weaknesses to exploit at the plate.

  12. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs View Post
    So wait, you're saying the offense is just fine, so let's minimally improve the offense and hurt the defense and the pitchers? Not sure I'd jump into that decision.
    You only consider Drew a "minimal" offensive improvement over Florimon?

  13. #31
    So much talk about Pedro's fielding justifying his putrid hitting. Here's what I decided to do: each game, I decide if what Pedro did in the field offset what he did it the plate. Today the answer was no. He was hitless in risp situations; he did nothing in the field to offset this.

  14. #32
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    The offense is not "just fine" no matter how many runs they put up the first week of the season, if you ask me. And the downgrade defensively WOULD be minimal, if at all.
    Last edited by USAFChief; 04-06-2014 at 08:27 PM.
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  16. #33
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Joe A. Preusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    It's not a knee jerk reaction. Going into the season, Florimon had south of a 5% chance of posting an acceptable OPS. The fact that he's not doing it is the opposite of shocking.

    Imagine the (quite valid) consternation over Suzuki put toward someone even more deserving.
    The knee jerk part was in relation to the season only being 6 games old. Ask yourselves this:
    If Drew were under contract with another team, would you trade Ryan Eades for him? I'm not sure i would, but i'm also not sure i wouldn't.

  17. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe A. Preusser View Post
    The knee jerk part was in relation to the season only being 6 games old. Ask yourselves this:
    If Drew were under contract with another team, would you trade Ryan Eades for him? I'm not sure i would, but i'm also not sure i wouldn't.
    I would think that would be a no brainer.
    Where on our prospect spectrum do you consider Eades vs. Sulburan? I'd think most people have them fairly close.
    Eades a little bit higher perhaps, but consider that we got Sulburan for Drew Butera.
    A non top 100 prospect by himself doesn't get you very much on the trade market.

  18. #35
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    I've never been on the bandwagon to sign Drew and I think the other 29 teams' inaction shows that there is a lot of skepticism about Drew, at least at the price that Boras has held out for. Florimon remains the best defender in the system at one of the top three most crucial defensive positions. His offense was bad last year and has been abysmal so far in five games, but that is way too short a time to give up on him for good. A month from now, perhaps, but not now. I would still rather see a young guy than a 30+ SS with a long injury history.

  19. #36
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe A. Preusser View Post
    The knee jerk part was in relation to the season only being 6 games old. Ask yourselves this:
    If Drew were under contract with another team, would you trade Ryan Eades for him? I'm not sure i would, but i'm also not sure i wouldn't.
    I'd probably trade Eades.

    Eh, I'd almost certainly trade Eades.

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  21. #37
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    The unknown is how much Florimon's good defense saves runs. Is it one run every 10 games? Every 4 games? We know it is something.

    ZIPS projects Drew for 49 RC+ in 458 PA. The Florimon update has 40 in 502 PA. I think that makes a difference of about 1 run every 9 games.

    Other projections favor Drew more so maybe it is 1 in 6 games. It is hard to imagine Florimon's defense saves 1 run in 6 games over Drew, but it is something.

    It won't be too many years before the value of defense on saving runs will be better quantified. Until then it is hard to appreciate a very good defensive player batting in the 9 hole.

  22. #38
    Senior Member Triple-A Reider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Brooks View Post
    Well if you want to wait a couple of months to evaluate his bat, that is fine I guess, (though I'm not sure what else he has left to show you), however bear in mind that at that point Drew is no longer an option.
    If they target Drew it would have to be soon, because the closer it gets to the draft, the harder it will be to sign him.
    That's fair. I understand that. And if the Twins want to go that route in the near future, that's fine. However, I'm just not pro Drew as much as some people are. I don't feel that the Twins need to be in a panic to go get him. However, I do think that it's a good idea to keep close tabs on his situation and other (possible trade?) options though, and make a change if/when necessary. And obviously I feel that 6 games into the season is too early to make a change @ SS.

  23. #39
    Senior Member Triple-A Reider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Honest question. Where and why do you expect Florimon to improve?

    He's good defensively, not going to improve much there.
    This is where we are going to have to agree to disagree. Would you agree that he got off to a slow start defensively last year? This year he seems to be solid right out of the gate. I believe his ceiling is #2 defensively if he has less mental errors than last season. He absolutely has the tools to be that kind of SS for us. In addition, him and Dozier have really good chemistry in the middle infield. They are only going to build upon that the more they play together.

    He's bad offensively and has been his entire career. He actually was a WORSE hitter as 2013 progressed. He's 27 years old.

    What improvement does anyone see in him as a player?
    I am not expecting Florimon to turn into a Josh Willingham and crush 35hr's.
    I am not expecting Florimon to turn into a Joe Mauer type hitter and hit +.300 every year
    And I am certainly not expecting Florimon to turn into an RBI machine like Colabello.

    What I am hoping for Florimon is that he can be a scrappier hitter, a tougher out. I am hoping he can strike out less, put more balls in play, and even take pitchers into deeper counts.

    Trust me, if I didn't think so highly of Florimon's defensive skill set, I wouldn't be in favor of giving him more time to work on his hitting. If he was out there fumbling around like Nishioka, I would be screaming for his replacement like some around here already are, 6 games into the season. I honestly think it's wise for the Twins to give him some time to work on his hitting. Maybe it'll work out, maybe it won't. In the meantime the Twins should be turning over every stone possible in case he doesn't show any progression this year.

  24. #40
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Joe A. Preusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    I'd probably trade Eades.

    Eh, I'd almost certainly trade Eades.
    Im trying, but i just cant find a way to disagree with that.

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