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Thread: Bartlett... What not?

  1. #1
    Senior Member All-Star Bark's Lounge's Avatar
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    Bartlett... What not?

    To be honest, I am pretty thrilled with the way the Twins have opened the 2013 season. They are 2-3, but I have liked the way a lot of the guys came out of the gate.

    Pedro Florimon has been put in a compromising situation this season. He definitely should have been placed on the DL and given some time in extended spring training to recover from his appendectomy surgery.

    Right now, no matter the the Twins choices, they should give Bartlett a chance to play SS on an everyday basis.

    In my opinion, Florimon and Escobar are not future type fixes to the Twins SS needs, and I feel they should give Bartlett a shot.

    Right now, we do not have a SS of the future, in that case you need to find out what you have and put the best available piece forward.

    Maybe Bartlett is the guy to fill the gap. 5 years ago he was an all-star with fantastic numbers, the two years surrounding him on the back and front end were acceptable.

    Bartlett's been out of MLB for 1.5 years. Who is to say he cannot be better than our other options?

    I guarantee he will be better than Florimon, in this day of age, you need some semblance of offense to go with your defense.

    Jason Bartlett is our best bet.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Triple-A
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    He will get his shot when injuries or poor performances occur. We don't need to rush him in there, let the younger guys play.

  3. #3
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    No and not Bartlett. Florimon had time to recover from his appendectomy and he is running fine and throwing and swinging well. He should not have been disabled. Florimon is 1-12 with five K's. Hardly a great start, but he hasn't looked overmatched on every AB. Mauer and Dozier started out as bad or worse, and so have a number of prominent players. Give Florimon at least another week before howling for a replacement. There is nothing to show that Bartlett is not used up.

  4. #4
    Senior Member All-Star Hosken Bombo Disco's Avatar
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    The only problem is your main justification for using Bartlett is also a justification for using any other player:

    "Since _________ and _______ are not shortstops of the future, we might as well use _________ to fill the gap."

    But to your other point, Bartlett could probably out hit Florimon. But ironically with the offense starting hot, Florimons bat is not such a liability. Florimon's glove is good to great, depending on who you ask.

    Also, Gardy loves Florimon as much as he loves Bartlett, so there's that. either of those two guys could have justifiably started at AAA and no one would have blinked an eye. But here they are.

  5. #5
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    No way. Bartlett shouldn't even be on the roster, much less starting!

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    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark's Lounge View Post
    To be honest, I am pretty thrilled with the way the Twins have opened the 2013 season. They are 2-3
    The last time they opened the 2013 season, they went 4 and 2 before the unpleasantness in KC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bark's Lounge View Post
    Pedro Florimon has been put in a compromising situation this season.
    Let me guess. Batting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bark's Lounge View Post
    Jason Bartlett is our best bet.

    You're our best and only hope, JF!

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  9. #7
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaBombo View Post
    The last time they opened the 2013 season
    They opened the 2013 season more than once? What did I miss?

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  11. #8
    Head Moderator MVP glunn's Avatar
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    I think that we should all keep an open mind about Bartlett. He seems healthy and motivated. Maybe he can get close to his prior effectiveness.

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  13. #9
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    Twins should have gone for Bonifacio - switch hitter batting .542 with 4 SB already. A much better option on the bench than Bartlett because of speed and versatility. He's already played CF, 2B and SS for the Cubs. He's not an outstanding fielder, but he's adequate. He can also play 3B, corner OF and probably 1B.
    Last edited by ScottyB; 04-06-2014 at 05:35 AM.

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  15. #10
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottyB View Post
    Twins should have gone for Bonifacio - switch hitter batting .542 with 4 SB already. A much better option on the bench than Bartlett because of speed and versatility. He's already played CF, 2B and SS for the Cubs. He's not an outstanding fielder, but he's adequate. He can also play 3B, corner OF and probably 1B.
    I was on the Bonafacio bandwagon. One week doesn't a season make, but he is off to a nice start.

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    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Free Eduardo Escobar
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  18. #12
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Florimon is taking good at bats. He'll start getting his hits. Give him a few more weeks before giving the job to someone else. Escobar is next in line and then Bartlett. Bartlett belongs on the bench primarily. If he's starting at short at some time this year, things have not gone well. I'd rather call up Santana mid season if both Florimon and Escobar fail.

    I suppose it depends on how you define failure. To me, what Florimon did last year is the floor. Anything below that for a sustained period constitutes failure in my book. But you have to give him a chance to fail. One week does not constitute a chance.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  19. #13
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    I've posted this before, but IMO the Twins primary reason for keeping Bartlett around was cheap insurance against the possibility they decide they can't live with Florimon's offense any more.

    However, I don't think they will make that call one week into the season. Nor should they.

    I do, however, disagree that "Florimon is taking good ABs." If I recall correctly, in four games he's gotten the ball out of the infield twice, his one hit was a seeing eye ground ball, he has 5 Ks to 1 BB, and the manager thinks so little of him he's been asked to sacrifice in the third inning.

    i also disagree with the position that last year constitutes the floor for "success.". A 69 OPS+ cannot be considered acceptable. He's not going to hit .083, but his offense WILL be a problem, IMO.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

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  21. #14
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    I do, however, disagree that "Florimon is taking good ABs." If I recall correctly, in four games he's gotten the ball out of the infield twice, his one hit was a seeing eye ground ball, he has 5 Ks to 1 BB, and the manager thinks so little of him he's been asked to sacrifice in the third inning.

    i also disagree with the position that last year constitutes the floor for "success.". A 69 OPS+ cannot be considered acceptable. He's not going to hit .083, but his offense WILL be a problem, IMO.
    Maybe I should revise my definition of a good at bat. Maybe I should say he's taking long at bats. Because, you know, the outcome does matter. By my definition, Drew Butera took good at bats. But when he did finally make contact, the ball came off his bat like a Christian Ponder pass in the flat. The difference is, Florimon has a chance to drive the ball after taking several pitches and fouling off others. Drew rarely had that chance.

    And I should have clarified: I think last year's SS offensive output constitutes failure. But I also think the defense made up for it quite a bit. And clearly the Twins thought the combination was adequate. In any event, my comments about it being the floor reflect the Twins position rather than my own. Of course I'd rather have offense approaching that of Stephen Drew. But it is clear the Twins are indifferent at best about it because they continue to pass up an opportunity to sign him.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

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    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    I think the issue is that some of us view Bartlett as a wild card, sort of like Kubel (or Johan), who if he regains his prior form would be good enough to command regular at-bats. The Twins don't see it that way, at least not Gardy. Gardy only needed to see 1 spring training game (a minor league game) from Florimon to declare "he's our shortstop." They never saw Bartlett as a wildcard. Granted, Bartlett didn't blow anyone's socks off in ST to press the issue. Its Gardy's call, they're W-L is 2-3 so who are we to argue with it.

  23. #16
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottyB View Post
    Twins should have gone for Bonifacio - switch hitter batting .542 with 4 SB already. A much better option on the bench than Bartlett because of speed and versatility. He's already played CF, 2B and SS for the Cubs. He's not an outstanding fielder, but he's adequate. He can also play 3B, corner OF and probably 1B.
    Bonifacio is making a lot of clubs regret passing on him right now. 13/24 out the chute.

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  25. #17
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    But when he did finally make contact, the ball came off his bat like a Christian Ponder pass in the flat.
    That made me laugh...well played sir.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

  26. #18
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    Bartlett would have to hit far better than his career numbers to make up for the fielding deficit created by replacing Florimon. Is there any reason to believe that he will hit that well?

    By removing Florimon the Twins remove their best defensive player from a poor defensive line up. The only other player who is certain to be average or better is Dozier. Hopefully Hicks will join them. Mauer? No one else is close to average.

  27. #19
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jorgenswest View Post
    Bartlett would have to hit far better than his career numbers to make up for the fielding deficit created by replacing Florimon. Is there any reason to believe that he will hit that well?

    By removing Florimon the Twins remove their best defensive player from a poor defensive line up. The only other player who is certain to be average or better is Dozier. Hopefully Hicks will join them. Mauer? No one else is close to average.
    I agree the main reason they stick with Florimon is his defense. Escobar is abetter hitter, but he doesn't have the range of Florimon.

    But I disagree on your assessment of the defense. I'd say it is an accurate description of the team last year. But I saw improvement this spring. I'd say Plouffe is close to average. Arcia has shown a lot of improvement. Both he and Hicks struggled last year with fuller second decks in the majors. They're both getting used to it. He has a chance to be average. Even Willignham looks like he's moving around a lot better out there than he did last year. It's hard to overestimate the impact of his injury on his range. He'll never be average, but he'll be better than he was last year. I also think they'll be improved behind the plate, if only because they will no longer have the worst defensive catcher in baseball back there.

    I continue to have concerns about Mauer's defense. It's not as good as Morneau's. He looked great in his previous stints at the position. But this year, he's booted and bobbled a lot more balls than I expected. For my money, Colabello is the better first baseman. I expect Mauer to improve to being just average. He's not there yet.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  28. #20
    I certainly agree with you about Mauer. He has looked rough at first base. For my money, I would put Escobar at short, but Gardenhire has never asked me for my opinion. And why not give Bartlett a game or so at short and see how he looks.

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