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Thread: Jason Bartlett

  1. #81
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    I am growing quite tired of "attitude" and "clubhouse leadership" and yada yada yada. Overhyped rubbish. WINNING solves the problem. Bartlett and likely Kubel run counter to that goal.

    Also, it would seem that Brian Dozier might be one of those players clearly able to step up and be a leader.

  2. #82
    Here we go again. Gardy likes the way he handles himself in the clubhouse and the fact that he's a proven winner--in 2008. Please someone tell Gardy and company that they need a player or two that can hit on the field and not just "character guys." Gardenhire just can't get over the guys he falls in love with, i.e. Nick Punto, etc.
    Last edited by twinsnorth49; 03-28-2014 at 08:48 AM.

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  4. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by savvyspy View Post
    The Twins cut 3 outfielders (Parmalee, Mastroianni, and Pressly) who are all in their 20's and SIGNIFICANTLY better players than Bartlett, exposing 2 of them to waivers, so Bartlett could be a backup outfielder.!
    I think we need to take a realistic look at the players we cut or have in AAA.

    Presley .715 OPS (Outfielder)
    Mastro .607 OPS (Outfielder)
    Parmelee .717 OPS (OF/1B)

    Bartlett's career OPS is .702 and he is a short stop. I understand he has rust he needs to shake off, but can we honestly say any of those three guys has a better chance than Bartlett to be a starter on this team in July of this year or next year? I would argue Bartett has more upside, even at 34 years old. Carroll played until he was 38-39 and Bartlett only needs to get back to 80-90% of the years he up up a .879 or .760 OPS. If he gets back to his career mark he is easily the best option we have at SS right now.

    Here is what I think the writing on the wall suggests. In May or June, Bartlett will take over for Pedro Florimon at SS and Mastro will be on the club as the 4th OF (Florimon DFA or in AAA). In any event, I am convinced Presley, Mastro, or Parmelee are not starters on the 2015 team so position flexibility is really not all that important to me this April.

    I find it refreshing that we are clearing our roster of guys that may add depth this year but who we know are not part of the future. And we have roster space to pick up cast offs who may click from another organization. While a long shot, I think we know what we have with the guys we have cut (Worley, Diamond, Parmelee, Presley, etc.)
    Last edited by tobi0040; 03-28-2014 at 08:49 AM.

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  6. #84
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Aren't Perkins, Pelfrey, and Suzuki known "character" "leaders" anyway?

  7. #85
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Pedro Florimon is clearly and demonstrably better than Jason Bartlett at all things SS. So . . . please.

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  9. #86
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    Wow. I am amazed that so much angst can be generated over the decision to keep one bad player over one of two other bad players. This decision deserved to be met with one large, collective yawn.

  10. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    Pedro Florimon is clearly and demonstrably better than Jason Bartlett at all things SS. So . . . please.
    Unfortunately one of the things an SS does is bat.

    Pedro has a career OPS of .601.

    Bartlett's career OPS is .702 and he has 7 seasons with a higher OPS than Pedro. Even in his 2011 "what happened to Bartlett" season, his OPS was still higher than Pedro's.

  11. #88
    Shane, I agree that winning trumps all, however everything we hear says the Twins clubhouse is a morgue. With the 162 game grind you need players who can pick others up, provide vocal leadership and in general make 1+1=3. I think today's Twins have none of that. Just too many passive/introverted players.

  12. #89
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    One of the reasons the A's and Rays win is that they value EVERY single player on the roster. They don't carry negative WAR players, in general. The secret to the As last year is that no one is really bad, and a few players are quite good. If the 24th and 25th spots don't matter at all, just hire Bonnes and Stohs to play out there. But then, no one would do that, so clearly they do matter.
    Lighten up Francis....

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  14. #90
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    Wait a minute. Bartlett is now the "attitude guy" in the Clubhouse. The last time he was here, Gardy had trouble getting him to shout "I got it" for a pop-up. Something positive needs to happen before the waiver wire and still this is going to be a tough season to watch!!!

  15. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    One of the reasons the A's and Rays win is that they value EVERY single player on the roster. They don't carry negative WAR players, in general. The secret to the As last year is that no one is really bad, and a few players are quite good. If the 24th and 25th spots don't matter at all, just hire Bonnes and Stohs to play out there. But then, no one would do that, so clearly they do matter.

    This logic assumes Bartlett over Presley or Parmelee is costing us wins. They all have the same career OPS. If Bartlett gets reps over Pedro you lose a little on defense and gain on offense. Can Bartlett not play LF or 1B? And we are talking about very little difference if any, over 100 AB's.

  16. #92
    People are getting this upset about the 25th roster spot. So who else do/did we have out there to be a super utility guy, who will be the cornerstone of the team's resurgence?

    Presley, Bernier, Mastrionani? Not sure any are significant improvements.

    Bartlett is a low risk move to have a versatile veteran presence on the roster. If he doesn't work out - then they send him away at little or no cost.

    It's a 162 game season, let's see how it plays out.

  17. #93
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    Feel free to write off ABs and fielding all you want, because "it doesn't matter much". I'm saying that the As and Rays (and I) don't agree. No AB or inning in the field should be given away.

    As for Bartlett over Presley, I don't see how anyone can argue a 34 year old who has never played any position other than SS in his career, who was effectively out of baseball for the last 2 years, is likely to be as effective in the field as Presley. Who is your defensive sub in the 8th/9th innings for Willingham/Arcia now, on the off chance they have a lead? Bartlett?
    Lighten up Francis....

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  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    Feel free to write off ABs and fielding all you want, because "it doesn't matter much". I'm saying that the As and Rays (and I) don't agree. No AB or inning in the field should be given away.

    As for Bartlett over Presley, I don't see how anyone can argue a 34 year old who has never played any position other than SS in his career, who was effectively out of baseball for the last 2 years, is likely to be as effective in the field as Presley. Who is your defensive sub in the 8th/9th innings for Willingham/Arcia now, on the off chance they have a lead? Bartlett?
    Nobody is writing off AB's as much as seeing no real difference in the choices. Bartlett's OPS is basically the same as our choices.

    The Rays had Matt Joyce (.747 OPS), David Dejesus (.741 OPS), and Sean Rodriguez (.704 OPS) on their bench. Their backup catcher had an OPS of .714 as well. I don't think it is a philosophical difference between the teams or the fans for that matter, they have better options because they have better players.

  20. #95
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Whomever didn't make the team would be gone. Bartlett had an opt-out clause and was reportedly ready to use it if needed. Presley was out of options. So it came down to who is better. The field staff determined that Bartlett is better than Presley, and more versatile, and a better guy in the clubhouse. So they chose Bartlett. It's as simple as that. Any attempt to read a grand conspiracy into it is over thinking it.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

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  22. #96
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    As long as they are somehow held accountable if they are wrong, or rewarded if they are right, great......
    Lighten up Francis....

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  24. #97
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    I think the Twins should take a page out of the Earl Weaver playbook. Bat Bartlett 2nd on road games, so he hits in the top of the 1st. Then take him out of the game, sub in Florimon for the bottom of the 1st.

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  26. #98
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    Speaking of not being held accountable, apparently the twins current situation is all Bill Smith's fault and you're a moron if you disagree with the way that ownership has handled things. Someone might want to tell Reusse that calling fans morons for their beliefs isn't a great plan...

    http://m.startribune.com/?id=252566001

  27. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by S. View Post
    Speaking of not being held accountable, apparently the twins current situation is all Bill Smith's fault and you're a moron if you disagree with the way that ownership has handled things. Someone might want to tell Reusse that calling fans morons for their beliefs isn't a great plan...

    http://m.startribune.com/?id=252566001
    If you buy that they were willing to spend and Terry did not spend, I am not sure how Bill Smith gets 100% of the blame. Wouldn't TR share some of that blame?

    I don't think ownership was as willing to spend as they lead on.
    Last edited by tobi0040; 03-28-2014 at 10:27 AM.

  28. #100
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    It's not a grand conspiracy .... it is an attempt to recover the past. I think Gardenhire genuinely misses the likes of Cuddyer and Punto and pre-July 2011 Morneau.

    I'm just not convinced that you can try to recreate that by bringing guys back. I think it is something that could develop from a group of prospects brought up at the same time. Alternatively, I think that new leadership from outside the organization might do it. In that sense, Bartlett is certainly better than Kubel, not just on personality but on time removed from the organization.

    But overall, the Twins need to embrace the future not the past.

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