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Thread: Jason Bartlett

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    I like Bartlett. I have always liked Bartlett. He was a good player before he blew out his knee. That player was better than Presley or Parmelee or any of the other guys they sent to Rochester. But I seriously doubt he can return to that level of play. If he can, I will be the first to laud the Twins for the reclamation project. If not, they just lost a valuable asset. Time will tell. I will say that he looked really good when I saw him a week ago. Maybe he impressed all the coaches enough for them to think he is the same guy with a healthy knee.
    The flip side is, does Bartlett need to return to the level of play he was once at to be better than Pedro Florimon? I don't think he does, he has five years under his belt that I don't think Pedro Florimon is capable of (.690 - .870 OPS). Even at 34, I honestly believe he could be our starting SS next year. That is not necessarily a good thing, but given the options can we rule it out? I agree that he is here to pressure Pedro and take over if need be.

    Big picture, in 2014 the SS decision should not have come down to Bartlett/Florimon. Levi Michael has done exactly nothing since he was drafted and we have not signed a FA or international FA to add to the pipeline.
    Last edited by tobi0040; 03-27-2014 at 08:01 PM.

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  3. #42
    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs View Post
    No need to overreact.
    History tells us that as long as Gardenhire is the manager, there will be plenty of chances for Bartlett and, to a lesser extent Kubel, to be misused.

    And for an organization that found itself without even a replacement-level major league center fielder just 9 months ago, counting on only the same two guys who failed last year is a move that doesn't inspire a great deal of confidence.

    Also, after the 2013 Hicks rush job and fiasco, no matter how often the Twins might say the right things, there has to be concern that if CF is another debacle, they succumb to temptation to make the same mistake twice. Or three times for that matter, depending on what happens to Hicks on his second trip to the deep end of the pool.
    Last edited by LaBombo; 03-27-2014 at 07:57 PM.

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  5. #43
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    There had been a lot of concern in the forums that Hicks, Arcia, and Pinto would all start in AAA. Are we, as a forum, so disappointed that we can't get worked up about their demotion now that they made the team, that we have to take out our stored up indignation on the 25th utility player?

    Personally, I think its about having a balanced bench, especially after your starting SS had an appendectomy. With Presley and Parmelee, the team had 4 LH corner OF bats with subpar fielding (them, plus Kubel and Arcia), plus 2 RH corner OF bats with subpar fielding (Colabello and Willingham). After the wavier game, they've got a LH/RH ratio of 2/2. Given LF/RF/DH for those 4 players plus Pinto and the rest of the diamond filled (11/13 position players), how do you fill the rest of your bench? Escobar takes the backup IF position, now you're at 12/13.

    It might be sacrilege on these boards, but I think that it makes sense that they went to Bartlett. There are simply not enough PAs in the OF and at DH for anyone more than the four aforementioned bats plus Pinto (if Gardy is okay with that...a debate for another time). Arcia and Pinto are young and need lots of ABs, Willingham needs ABs to build value, and Kubel and Colabello can fill in on their off days. If they can't use the 25th spot on another slow bench bat, and you've decided against a third catcher, then the only other options are a backup CF or a second UT guy. With a young guy at CF that needs ABs, I see a spot for an experienced, cheap, easily dropped, athletic, RH bat with an extremely distant history of success and ability as a PR. No, this cannot be worth getting worked up about.

    In fact, if Bartlett can return to vintage 2011 form, his worst full season as a major leaguer, his OPS+ would be higher than last year's performance from Twins players accounting for nearly 2000 PAs. That's roughly 1/3 of the team's total PAs last year. Not going to say he's great, but I'd say there's a chance he does better than Clete Thomas, Carroll, Florimon, et al. The bar is low. Very low.

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  7. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDean View Post
    There had been a lot of concern in the forums that Hicks, Arcia, and Pinto would all start in AAA. Are we, as a forum, so disappointed that we can't get worked up about their demotion now that they made the team, that we have to take out our stored up indignation on the 25th utility player?
    Gardenhire's Punto obsession alone rightly earns him skepticism about how all utility infielders will be handled. Nobody is suggesting that Bartlett will end up being overused as much as Punto the backup, let alone Punto the utterly miscast starter, but we still could end up seeing way too much Bartlett if Florimon/Escobar struggle or get hurt.

    And it could be argued that any Bartlett at all is too much for a rebuilding team that should be looking to get younger and more athletic.
    Last edited by LaBombo; 03-27-2014 at 09:27 PM.

  8. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaBombo View Post
    Gardenhire's Punto obsession alone rightly earns him skepticism about how all utility infielders will be handled. Nobody is suggesting that Bartlett will end up being overused as much as Punto the backup, let alone Punto the utterly miscast starter, but we still could end up seeing way too much Bartlett if Florimon/Escobar struggle or get hit.

    And it could be argued that any Bartlett at all is too much for a rebuilding team that should be looking to get younger and more athletic.
    I would agree if Bartlett was taking at bats away from a good young player. But he is not. Pedro is not a starting shortstop in this league, let alone one on a good team

  9. #46
    Senior Member All-Star Sconnie's Avatar
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    I'm not certain Gardy is the reason Bartlett and Kubel are with this team. At the end of the day it was Rob Antony and Terry Ryan's call. Gardy didn't send Presley packing, and if I were Gardy, I would be furious to not have a quality 4th outfielder on the roster.
    Presley might be easily replaceable, but so far has not been replaced.

  10. #47
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    Presley is a good enough 4th OF. Also, I honestly, without a doubt, would prefer to give James Beresford a taste of being on the roster instead of Bartlett if this is a matter of Florimon being out.

    I currently find it odd that the Twins have now sent Parmelee, Herrmann, and Mastroianni down, and waived Presley and lost him. Those four are good defensive replacements at the corners or at all three positions in the latter two cases. Bartlett is obviously not.

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  12. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobi0040 View Post
    I would agree if Bartlett was taking at bats away from a good young player. But he is not. Pedro is not a starting shortstop in this league, let alone one on a good team
    While I agree that it's unlikely Florimon turns into a plus player who eventually helps the Twins contend, the chances of that happening are staggeringly higher than that Bartlet does.

    Also, it's worth remembering that just two seasons ago, the Twins left camp with a 38 year old utility infielder and Smeagol lookalike



    who ended up being Gardenhire's precious, amassing 537 PA's, more than all but exactly one player on the roster under the age of 28... who the Twins promptly traded away.

  13. #49
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    Has someone in the Twins organization said something about Florimon recently? I know Gardy was a bit concerned that he wouldn't be ready, but he has played with the regulars almost every day for the past week. If there was a contingency to disable P-Flo, the Twins wouldn't have wanted him to play in major league exhibitions. He can't be disabled retroactively, so barring a new injury, I see no possibility that he will stay in Florida when the Twins go to Chicago on the 31st.

  14. #50
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    Miller: Bartlett new Team Chemistry Coach

    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    Presley is a good enough 4th OF. Also, I honestly, without a doubt, would prefer to give James Beresford a taste of being on the roster instead of Bartlett if this is a matter of Florimon being out.

    I currently find it odd that the Twins have now sent Parmelee, Herrmann, and Mastroianni down, and waived Presley and lost him. Those four are good defensive replacements at the corners or at all three positions in the latter two cases. Bartlett is obviously not.
    But Beresford is an Aussie, and Gardy not only doesn't speak that language, he is also likely wary of his LukeHughes/LiamHendriks-ness.

    As for the other 3, they haven't qualified for the new Twins newly-established position, "Team Chemistry Coach", which at least on a day-to-day basis until another move is made, is Bartlett's new position with the club. The quotes from Gardy and Antony are not too encouraging about the clubhouse situation, or even the final certainty of Bartlett in his new role. Phil Miller even speculated out loud that Bartlett might also become Aaron Hicks' personal mentor. Frankly, the quotes sounded like making it up as they went along:


    http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/252838671.html
    Last edited by jokin; 03-27-2014 at 10:12 PM.

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  16. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringer bell View Post
    Has someone in the Twins organization said something about Florimon recently? I know Gardy was a bit concerned that he wouldn't be ready, but he has played with the regulars almost every day for the past week.

    I kind of think that says everything, doesn't it? Florimon is the starting shortstop.

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  18. #52
    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Frankly, the quotes sounded like making it up as the went along
    My impression as well. And after seeing that Gardenhire can say "I don't need a backup center fielder" with a straight face after what happened last year... PST nominee?

    A manager who ended up riding Clete Thomas for half a season, used Wilkin Ramirez as a center fielder for 50 innings, got only 21 innings in center from this year's AAA insurance policy, and even had a career first baseman shag flies in warmups to boost his emergency CF skills isn't worried about a backup for center.

    That sounds... what's the most polite way to put it... very optimistic.
    Last edited by LaBombo; 03-27-2014 at 10:30 PM.

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  20. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringer bell View Post
    Has someone in the Twins organization said something about Florimon recently? I know Gardy was a bit concerned that he wouldn't be ready, but he has played with the regulars almost every day for the past week. If there was a contingency to disable P-Flo, the Twins wouldn't have wanted him to play in major league exhibitions. He can't be disabled retroactively, so barring a new injury, I see no possibility that he will stay in Florida when the Twins go to Chicago on the 31st.
    Besides his recently expressed specific concern that Florimon wasn't ready, Gardy has also expressed frequent doses of "Florimon-is-my-starter" support, and that he's "just trying to get him going, here...", kind of crash-coursing him to good health, as it were.

    Beat writers are openly speculating about his readiness, I doubt the Twins would want to tip their hand about Florimon until they absolutely have to do so. It would seem that with a surgical situation, rather than an injury, the Twins may have some leeway here, citing medical opinions, as to when, how and if they might choose to exercise the DL (I have no idea as this idea of "rehab" relates to ST vs. Regular season games)? Or maybe they are just willing to let him start the first 15 days on the DL if that's how it works out physically?

  21. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaBombo View Post
    My impression as well. And after seeing that Gardenhire can say "I don't need a backup center fielder" with a straight face after what happened last year... unbelievable.
    Which again invites a scenario in April similar to last year- bordering on malfeasance. While it's virtually impossible to see Hicks starting out as badly as 2013 (and Gardy won't let him get anywhere near the top of the order any time soon), not only is the "worst-case scenario" of a major injury not appropriately accounted for, but neither is the situation where Hicks only performs marginally better than 2013, but still below major league minimum standards. And they have already cut their 2014 Clete Thomas, in one Jermaine Mitchell.

    Baffling all the way around.......
    UNLESS....
    there's a De Aza-type trade in the works or some waiver wire guy they're counting on picking up as Plan B and Plan C depth.

  22. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringer bell View Post
    Has someone in the Twins organization said something about Florimon recently? I know Gardy was a bit concerned that he wouldn't be ready, but he has played with the regulars almost every day for the past week. If there was a contingency to disable P-Flo, the Twins wouldn't have wanted him to play in major league exhibitions. He can't be disabled retroactively, so barring a new injury, I see no possibility that he will stay in Florida when the Twins go to Chicago on the 31st.
    Oh..as you were wondering in another thread, Florimon does also have options left, which I guess also allows them to keep him Florida a little while longer, but not 15 days, if necessary.

  23. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Which again invites a scenario in April similar to last year- bordering on malfeasance.
    Even the most optimistic projections of Hicks' 2014 make no mention of him developing an invulnerability to injury. And we already know Mastro didn't get that option installed at the factory.

    When I commented in a game thread that Bartlett's running catch in center would land him the backup CF role, I was totally joking, but then thought 'Would it be the craziest thing Gardenhire has done?'. The answer was no, of course, but there's a whole season for me to be wrong yet again.

    Of course, Bartlett won't have much time to monkey around with center if he displaces Florimon as the everyday shortstop.

    Boy was that depressing to type. And I don't even really like Florimon much.

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  25. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaBombo View Post
    Even the most optimistic projections of Hicks' 2014 make no mention of him developing an invulnerability to injury. And we already know Mastro didn't get that option installed at the factory.

    When I commented in a game thread that Bartlett's running catch in center would land him the backup CF role, I was totally joking, but then thought 'Would it be the craziest thing Gardenhire has done?'. The answer was no, of course, but there's a whole season for me to be wrong yet again.

    Of course, Bartlett won't have much time to monkey around with center if he displaces Florimon as the everyday shortstop.

    Boy was that depressing to type. And I don't even really like Florimon much.
    Bombo, I made a similar joke in one of the threads around the same time. I believe he got his first hit that day or a day or two within the day of him manning CF, so both developments obviously proved Gardy prophetic.

    I'm not sure if you were around at the time he became available, but I would love for someone to come on and explain how this current situation with Bartlett as the 25th guy is better than getting Emilio Bonifacio for free two months ago. Unlike Bartlett, Bonifacio has actually played the 6 positions that Jason is now suddenly qualified for- and he saw more PAs last September than Jason has seen in the last 2 years.

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  27. #58
    Senior Member All-Star Hosken Bombo Disco's Avatar
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    If only guys like Parmelee and Herrmann had known they were actually being evaluated as chemists

    http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/252838671.html

  28. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    I'm not sure if you were around at the time he became available, but I would love for someone to come on and explain how this current situation with Bartlett as the 25th guy is better than getting Emilio Bonifacio for free two months ago. Unlike Bartlett, Bonifacio has actually played the 6 positions that Jason is now suddenly qualified for- and he saw more PAs last September than Jason has seen in the last 2 years.
    Spent less time here this offseason than others, so missed that one, but I would hazard a guess that some people against that signing might want to reconsider in light of who is just a sore anything/no DL stint away from a week in center field.

  29. #60
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    And 'team chemist', ehh? Hope it doesn't come to this:

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