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Thread: Even though Hicks is better than AP and DM......

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    Even though Hicks is better than AP and DM......

    Is it best for the Twins and Hicks to have Hicks start in the minors?

  2. #2
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    Don't forget Jermaine Mitchell!

    edit: And Wilkin Ramirez!

    And the answer I believe is yes.

  3. #3
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    By the end of last season Hicks was so messed up at the plate that he didn't even hit well in AAA. He needs to regain some level of composure and plan at the plate before he gets challenged by MLB pitchers again imo. It's possible that the Twins could make feel that he is ready again but I would like him in AAA. Allow him to come up with very little pressure in June.

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    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    This is not about Hicks feeling pressure or not. It is about the Twins winning. And they cannot win with the likes of Presley (who has been horrible this Spring both with the bat and the glove) and Mastroianni in starting roles. The Twins need Hicks to perform.

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    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    I disagree a bit. I think this is about Hicks' development. What is best for Hicks' development is best for the Twins long-term. I think a short time in Rochester will benefit Hicks and the Twins.

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    Senior Member All-Star Sconnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kab21 View Post
    By the end of last season Hicks was so messed up at the plate that he didn't even hit well in AAA. He needs to regain some level of composure and plan at the plate before he gets challenged by MLB pitchers again imo. It's possible that the Twins could make feel that he is ready again but I would like him in AAA. Allow him to come up with very little pressure in June.
    i think there see some health issues that are being missed.


    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    Yes. When he came back healthy, he played well in AAA. Not reflected in the regular season stats. I don't know how many times I have to post this, but perhaps one more time will do the trick.


    OPS by month:


    April .356
    May .707
    June .708
    July .671


    Clete Thomas 2013 OPS: .597
    Alex Presley 2013 OPS: .699


    So from May to the end of the year, Aaron Hicks was the best center fielder on the Twins in 2013. And he didn't perform nearely as well as anybody expected. But he made an adjustment towards the end of April that carried through until they sent him down. He carshed and burned in his first 10 games. After that, he held his own.
    i agree with CMat. That's not to say that Hicks is 100% ready for the bigs. I don't know. I think the Hicks is already our best option.

    i do think however that the Twins should not let Hicks struggle too much. If he starts out poorly again, don't wait too long to send him back down.

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    Senior Member All-Star Sconnie's Avatar
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    DM has been sent down. Am I right that Hicks, Presley, Mitchell are with the big league club yet. (And Ramirez who I like but don't think of as a CF). Does Mitchell have a shot? I know nothing of the guy.

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    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sconnie View Post
    DM has been sent down. Am I right that Hicks, Presley, Mitchell are with the big league club yet. (And Ramirez who I like but don't think of as a CF). Does Mitchell have a shot? I know nothing of the guy.
    Mitchell was also among the cuts. The only center fielders left in camp are Hicks and Presley., unless you count Ramirez, which I don't.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

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    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    That probably means that Hicks is the starting CF, Do not see Presley and Rameriz as being the only options. However I agree if Hicks struggles early send him back down.

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    I think he needs to go back to AAA. There were clearly things he couldn't handle last season and working on them in a lower stress environment surrounded by players working on similar issues and with coaches whose sole job is to teach those fundamentals would benefit Hicks best. You don't teach a kid to swim by repeatedly throwing them in the deep end and shouting "Swim darn it!" If anybody would like see my reasoning on it here is my complete view on the situation.

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    Hicks will start in center. He hit a double and a dinger today in the minor league game. And we really need him starting, so there's not a doubt in my mind he will be.

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    I like Hicks getting another shot at CF again. Though I think I'd prefer they didn't stick him batting leadoff.

    His tools are probably the closest the Twins have to a leadoff hitter, but I'd like to see him bat lower while he gets re-acclimated to the majors.

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    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    Is everyone who wants Hicks to start in center because winning takes precedence over player development also in favor of putting Meyer into the rotation? Because that's essentially what you're asking for when you put Hicks back into the majors.

    The highest level that each player has succeeded in is AA. You could argue that Hicks was more ready because he played a full season in AA while Meyer played just under half a season. But you could also argue that Meyer is a lower risk than Hicks to fail if starting the season in the majors because he hasn't already failed once like Hicks.

    The fact is that Hicks didn't hit much in AAA either. Much has been made of the fact that he was playing through an injury that hampered his swing. That's certainly a strong possibility, but it's also a better argument for him to start the season in Rochester than it is to ignore his performance there and make him the opening day CF, isn't it?

    Whether his swing was messed up due to injury or not, the point is it was messed up. If it was due to the injury, he should be able to tear it up in AAA for a couple of months, regain confidence, and still have over 400 PA's to contribute to the big club. If his AAA struggles were not due mostly to the injury, then he'll need some more work down there.

    In any case, the fact that he struggled to make contact all of last year is a better indicator of his present ability level and what to expect at the beginning of the season than two dozen spring training AB's and a home run against a pitcher who may have washed out with the Nippon Ham Fighters.

    There's a reason why pretty much every established projection system has Hicks OPSing a good 30 or 40 points lower than Alex Presley. Hicks will very likely end up the better player, and he's certainly more fun to watch, but the Twins are making the same mistake twice by having him start the season in Minnesota.

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    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    Hicks is better than Adrian Peterson?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaBombo View Post
    Is everyone who wants Hicks to start in center because winning takes precedence over player development also in favor of putting Meyer into the rotation? Because that's essentially what you're asking for when you put Hicks back into the majors.


    I want the best team out there, and that means Hicks. You can't compare Hicks and Meyer. Meyer isn't even in the conversation. I want wins first and foremost. Plus, there really isn't any other choice, Mauer can't play centerfield.

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    Twins Moderator All-Star ChiTownTwinsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halsey Hall View Post
    Hicks will start in center. He hit a double and a dinger today in the minor league game. And we really need him starting, so there's not a doubt in my mind he will be.
    He came into the ML game in the 7th and hit a double in the 8th. I'd be very surprised at this point if he wasn't our starting CFer.

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    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaBombo View Post
    Is everyone who wants Hicks to start in center because winning takes precedence over player development also in favor of putting Meyer into the rotation? Because that's essentially what you're asking for when you put Hicks back into the majors.

    The highest level that each player has succeeded in is AA. You could argue that Hicks was more ready because he played a full season in AA while Meyer played just under half a season. But you could also argue that Meyer is a lower risk than Hicks to fail if starting the season in the majors because he hasn't already failed once like Hicks.

    The fact is that Hicks didn't hit much in AAA either. Much has been made of the fact that he was playing through an injury that hampered his swing. That's certainly a strong possibility, but it's also a better argument for him to start the season in Rochester than it is to ignore his performance there and make him the opening day CF, isn't it?

    Whether his swing was messed up due to injury or not, the point is it was messed up. If it was due to the injury, he should be able to tear it up in AAA for a couple of months, regain confidence, and still have over 400 PA's to contribute to the big club. If his AAA struggles were not due mostly to the injury, then he'll need some more work down there.

    In any case, the fact that he struggled to make contact all of last year is a better indicator of his present ability level and what to expect at the beginning of the season than two dozen spring training AB's and a home run against a pitcher who may have washed out with the Nippon Ham Fighters.

    There's a reason why pretty much every established projection system has Hicks OPSing a good 30 or 40 points lower than Alex Presley. Hicks will very likely end up the better player, and he's certainly more fun to watch, but the Twins are making the same mistake twice by having him start the season in Minnesota.
    The Fans at Fangraphs have Hicks at a higher OPS while Oliver has him at a much higher WAR. But I don't think this discussion is going anywhere. So I will refrain from arguing with you further.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

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    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halsey Hall View Post
    I want the best team out there, and that means Hicks. You can't compare Hicks and Meyer. Meyer isn't even in the conversation. I want wins first and foremost. Plus, there really isn't any other choice, Mauer can't play centerfield.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChiTownTwinsFan View Post
    He came into the ML game in the 7th and hit a double in the 8th. I'd be very surprised at this point if he wasn't our starting CFer.
    Did you all see that one bouncer to the cutoff man from short center by Presley earlier in the game today? Revere-like arm...
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    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrylos View Post
    Did you all see that one bouncer to the cutoff man from short center by Presley earlier in the game today? Revere-like arm...
    It's good comparison. Presley has Revere-like contact skills, arm and power, without Revere's speed, range or base running ability. The thing I've noticed about Hicks this spring is he is much stronger than he was at this time last year. When he hits the ball, it stays hit.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

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    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halsey Hall View Post
    I want the best team out there, and that means Hicks. You can't compare Hicks and Meyer. Meyer isn't even in the conversation. I want wins first and foremost. Plus, there really isn't any other choice, Mauer can't play centerfield.
    While I don't agree that wins are the most important goal of this season, I certainly understand that philosophy. But why can't we compare the idea of promoting of Meyer to the majors to the decision to re-promote Hicks? And why aren't/weren't Presley and Mastro viable options?

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