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Thread: Worley blames the wind

  1. #41
    Senior Member Triple-A zchrz's Avatar
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    I want to have hope for Worley, but his good preformances being inflated by the NL and by an obscene non swinging K rate are very worrisome. First response to the Revere trade seemed to be he was the main bait, but I think May's inclusion was necessary because Worley was much more of a gamble than presented at the time. May is still a starting question mark but his floor is a good reliever and Worley probably could be a league average 5th starter somewhere, but that was much more a trade of gambles both ways than I thought at the time. If May pans out as a reliever I am still happy with it, way more so if he sticks as a starter obviously, but I had thought the deal was a massive win for the Twins no matter how Revere turned out.
    "Professionalism - When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S Thompson

  2. #42
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zchrz View Post
    I want to have hope for Worley, but his good preformances being inflated by the NL and by an obscene non swinging K rate are very worrisome. First response to the Revere trade seemed to be he was the main bait, but I think May's inclusion was necessary because Worley was much more of a gamble than presented at the time. May is still a starting question mark but his floor is a good reliever and Worley probably could be a league average 5th starter somewhere, but that was much more a trade of gambles both ways than I thought at the time. If May pans out as a reliever I am still happy with it, way more so if he sticks as a starter obviously, but I had thought the deal was a massive win for the Twins no matter how Revere turned out.
    Great points. I can't agree more. Somebody else said he didn't throw all that many sinkers when he pitched well in the NL. That surprised me because it was his out pitch. I'm talking about the pitch he throws at the left handed batter that breaks back over the plate for a called strike. Some people mislabel it a cutter. If that pitch isn't working, he's gonna struggle. Even if it is working, AL hitters have an easier time with it. I saw a lot of them end up in the seats last year.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  3. #43
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    In regards to the K vs. Sinker guy, I'm not sure why it cannot be both. One of the things that statistics has shown is that the ability to induce ground balls correlates positively to the pitchers results. Getting a K guy who has enough heavy sink on that fastball to induce a lot of ground balls is not a bad thing...

    Take Liriano for instance. When he came up, part of his success was the ability to rack up Ks as well as induce a high amount of ground balls... Far more than the Twins other ace at that time. We all know what happened with Liriano, it didn't work out, but let's not pretend it's an either or situation with GB and K pitchers.

    Besides... we all know that most major league hitters have no problems hitting a 100 MPH straight fastball.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    If it walks like a duck, and kwak's like a duck...

    / sorry, kinda had to
    Missing the point--it's discouraged because throwing the pitch repeatedly is alledged to damage the pitcher's arm. The 'change-up' remark is a red-herring.

  5. #45
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    In regards to the K vs. Sinker guy, I'm not sure why it cannot be both. One of the things that statistics has shown is that the ability to induce ground balls correlates positively to the pitchers results. Getting a K guy who has enough heavy sink on that fastball to induce a lot of ground balls is not a bad thing...

    Take Liriano for instance. When he came up, part of his success was the ability to rack up Ks as well as induce a high amount of ground balls... Far more than the Twins other ace at that time. We all know what happened with Liriano, it didn't work out, but let's not pretend it's an either or situation with GB and K pitchers.

    Besides... we all know that most major league hitters have no problems hitting a 100 MPH straight fastball.
    Guys who can induce Ks and get a lot of grounders are very rare. I'm thinking of King Felix as the paradigm. Of course you want guys like that. Good luck getting them and keeping them on your team. Most guys add a sinker to stay in the game.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  6. #46
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    But I understand why the Twins have not adopted the new emphasis on strikeouts: It's just hard to acquire strikeout pitchers. Strikeout pitchers are like shortstops who can hit. If you're a pitching coach and you don't have strike-out pitchers, what do you do? Teach them how to keep the ball down and sink it. It is the only chance they have.
    Two words: Fransisco Liriano. He is a strikeout pitcher. Andy wanted him to get his sinker going first to set up his slider and that did not work for him. FF a season to Pittsburgh with a hitting coach who told him to do what he needed to do and Liriano throwing 30% sliders with the results we know.

    These guys make even strikeout pitchers non-strikeout pitchers...
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  7. #47
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrylos View Post
    Two words: Fransisco Liriano. He is a strikeout pitcher. Andy wanted him to get his sinker going first to set up his slider and that did not work for him. FF a season to Pittsburgh with a hitting coach who told him to do what he needed to do and Liriano throwing 30% sliders with the results we know.

    These guys make even strikeout pitchers non-strikeout pitchers...
    Yes. Probably the best example. Like I said, not a fan. He better not do it to Meyer.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  8. #48
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrylos View Post
    Two words: Fransisco Liriano. He is a strikeout pitcher. Andy wanted him to get his sinker going first to set up his slider and that did not work for him. FF a season to Pittsburgh with a hitting coach who told him to do what he needed to do and Liriano throwing 30% sliders with the results we know.

    These guys make even strikeout pitchers non-strikeout pitchers...
    Also Baker. To me a pitching coach should assess the natural movement a guy has and help him amplify that with complementary secondary pitches. Baker had good hop on the fastball, but he couldn't make it sink for the life of him. His sinker was actually straighter than his four seamer. Anderson persisted in trying to turn him into a sinkerball pitcher. It just never worked. Baker was most successful when he ignored Anderson's advice.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

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