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Thread: Article: Twins Roster Projection 2.0

  1. #81
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Since71 View Post
    I never said Escobar should be the starter. I said it was not a good idea too name Florimon the starter before spring training. Plus I am not as convinced as you are that Florimon is the better option. I will assume that your "first time caller-long time listener" was not meant to insult me as not as astute as you and others simply because I have not posted as often. As my name suggests I have been a Twins fan since 1971. I live in Rochester NY I go to about 10 Redwings games a year and watch many more on TV. I am by no means an expert on baseball but know enough to have my opinions respected regardless of how often I post them.
    No offense intended. Sorry if it came off that way. It was just an analogy. Lots of posters are giving Escobar far more credence than his number warrant. It seems like a lot of them like him better simply because he's not Florimon. That's the point I was trying to make.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

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  3. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    No offense intended. Sorry if it came off that way. It was just an analogy. Lots of posters are giving Escobar far more credence than his number warrant. It seems like a lot of them like him better simply because he's not Florimon. That's the point I was trying to make.
    OK no problem. All I want is for the Twins to be open minded as to who the best players are. I doubt that either Flori or Escobar are the long term solution and hope Santana is...as to who makes the roster this year it really doesn't matter cause 78 wins is probably the best to hope for sad to say... But hope remains eternal and we all want the same thing...

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  5. #83
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Since71 View Post
    I doubt that either Flori or Escobar are the long term solution...
    Concur.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

  6. #84
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    I'll go one step farther and say that the long-term solution isn't in the Twins system at this point. I don't know if Santana will develop into anything better than Florimon/Escobar as a hitter and his fielding currently isn't good enough to be a major league SS. Maybe he'll develop, maybe not.

  7. #85
    Senior Member All-Star Jim Crikket's Avatar
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    Shortstops who can contribute with the bat seem to be becoming as rare as catchers that can do so. I wish I could disagree with stringer, above, but I really can't at this point. There are some guys who COULD develop in to long term solutions and Santana may be one of those. Goodrum has upside, but is certainly not a lock. I'm just not sure the Twins are much different than 75% of MLB teams in that respect. SS almost seems to be a position you just keep filling with young, strong armed, good-glove, salary-controlled players until you get lucky on someone who can field and also knows which end of the bat to grip.

    Even using a high draft pick or big money international signing on a SS is no guarantee of developing a long term solution. The Astros have Carlos Correa and I think he'll stick at SS, but there are apparently a number of scouts who doubt it. Sano was a SS when he was signed by the Twins (tho I don't think anyone really believed he would stay at that position, even when he was 15 years old).

    If Pinto can become an everyday catcher and provide offense from that position, I'll feel better about just putting the best defensive SS available on the field.
    I opine about the Twins and Kernels regularly at Knuckleballsblog.com while my alter ego, SD Buhr covers the Kernels for MetroSportsReport.com.

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  9. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKGuy View Post
    At this point does it really matter if we lose Diamond or Worley? Are they really ever going to be a part of the contending team next year? I certainly don't want to lose Parms for nothing because I can at least see him as a 4th OF and LH bench bat on a contending team which is not the case for Diamond or Worley. I even think that Colabello off the bench and occasional DH against lefties will be useful in the future. I would even consider switching out Pressly for Deduno, but Pressly has been shaky so far.
    Interesting. Neither Colabello nor Parmelee have shown they can hit at the MLB level. Both Diamond and Worley have at least one very successful full season under their belt. Perhaps you will eventually be proven correct but at this point, if one were forced to pick, I think you have it backwards.

    Quote Originally Posted by ND-Fan View Post
    The Twins are going to be building for 2016 and 2017 seasons when I think they can make a run at getting to the World Series.
    Let me just say off the bat that I don't disagree with your timeline, but it is amazing how the "future greatness" of the Twins keeps getting pushed off into the future farther and farther. Last season it was 2015-2016 and now it's 2016-2017.

    I am a big human spaceflight fan and there is a saying, "A manned mission to Mars is always 30 years in the future."

    I'm worried the Twins years to compete will turn into a similar paradigm.

  10. #87
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    Roster contsruction project

    Quote Originally Posted by twinsfan34 View Post
    Based on the Spring Training starting lineups (if that means anything).

    The Twins lineups have mostly been like this:

    CF - Alex Pressley (1st game, Hicks led off, injured here and there since)
    2B - Brian Dozier
    1B - Joe Mauer
    LF - Josh Willingham
    RF - Oswaldo Arcia
    3B - Trevor Plouffe
    DH - varied a lot - Pinto, Kubel
    C - Kurt Suzuki
    SS - Escobar (Florimon has been injured)

    Some have Oswaldo not starting with the team. I just don't see anyone else doing his 'floor' (.250 AVG 18 HR 150 K)...let alone better than that.

    Kubel has looked terrible. Parmalee couldn't hit Arcia's floor right now, Mastroianni either.
    I like this prediction / observation. I think the Twins pitching staff has the depth definitely and maybe the talent to be what is needed for a contending team. With the pitchers I can see the rotation being the 4 free agents (Nolasco, Hughes, Corriea, and Pelfry) any one of these guys can get hurt or be ineffective at the start of the season which is why we want all of the depth possible. I see us keeping Deduno as either the 5th starter likely or in the bullpen and the other pitcher is likely to be Worely or Diamond but it could also be neither. Neither one has overly impressed so far. Worely came in camp in shape but.... I can also see Guerrier making the team out of spring training. I guess the 3 bullpen arms to watch out for include Fien, Theilbar, and Pressly lets see who has a bad spring. Again the looser of the rotation battle is not guaranteed a bullpen spot.

    On offense it comes down to can Willingham step up and hit .830 OPS? Can we find a solid leadoff hitter (Presley's to loose) who can at least get on base .340 or preferably .350 so Mauer can drive them in. can Dozier repeat last year? can Plouffe hit .750 OPS? Can RF and DH produce? (from Arcia, Colabello, Parmelee, Kubel, Hicks) If so we could have potentially enough offense to compete this year especially if we signed Drew for SS. there are probably too many ifs at this point since we lost Sano and the ability to redeploy Plouffe and Kubel is looking done so far.

    Anyway you slice it we are close to being a .500 team and that is a huge improvement from last year.

  11. #88
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    My money's on Bartlett, who is the better bench bat.
    That was the ghost of Bartlett's past bat. This spring training Bartlett cannot make contact even if the ball were sitting on a tee...
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  12. #89
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Since71 View Post
    OK no problem. All I want is for the Twins to be open minded as to who the best players are. I doubt that either Flori or Escobar are the long term solution and hope Santana is...as to who makes the roster this year it really doesn't matter cause 78 wins is probably the best to hope for sad to say... But hope remains eternal and we all want the same thing...
    The Twins said that Polanco will play full time SS this season. His contact and eye are better than almost all Twins' infielders (save Rosario, maybe.) This is the guy who could be the Twins next great SS, if his fielding holds up. He has made tremendous strides at fielding and it mostly is a range issue at this point.
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  13. #90
    Senior Member All-Star Jim Crikket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrylos View Post
    The Twins said that Polanco will play full time SS this season. His contact and eye are better than almost all Twins' infielders (save Rosario, maybe.) This is the guy who could be the Twins next great SS, if his fielding holds up. He has made tremendous strides at fielding and it mostly is a range issue at this point.
    I think Polanco's glove plays fine at SS. It's his arm that didn't seem as strong as other guys in CR last year. The Twins aren't giving up on him as a SS yet, though, that's true.
    I opine about the Twins and Kernels regularly at Knuckleballsblog.com while my alter ego, SD Buhr covers the Kernels for MetroSportsReport.com.

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  14. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrylos View Post
    The Twins said that Polanco will play full time SS this season. His contact and eye are better than almost all Twins' infielders (save Rosario, maybe.) This is the guy who could be the Twins next great SS, if his fielding holds up. He has made tremendous strides at fielding and it mostly is a range issue at this point.
    I don't actually recall the Twins saying that. What I remember reading is that he would continue to see time at shortstop which is an entirely different thing. That doesn't mean I am right here, but I am not too sure you are either. As far as his ability to play shortstop, well Seth says that Goodrum is the superior shortstop right now. Since there are questions about Goodrum being able to stay at the position, I am not really too sure what that says about Polanco.

    I have not seen either of these guys play shortstop, nor Santana either except the one time on TV last year, so I am in no position to judge. You have, which carries some weight with me. Since none are major league ready, it becomes a matter of tools and projection. I actually hope one of these guys becomes the next great Twins shortstop, though frankly, I don't know which if any of them is very likely to become that.

  15. #92
    Nolasco / Pelfrey / Hughes / Correia
    Deduno if he is healthy / Worley or Diamond if not
    Trade Correia ASAP and bring up Gibson
    Would also trade Deduno for a high ceiling A+/AA SP if possible to make room for Gibson.

    Perkins / Burton / Fein / Swarzak / Duensing / Thielbar / Worley or Diamond
    I would trade any of the relievers (including Perk) if the price is right.


    Suzuki / Pinto (50/50)
    Mauer / Parm
    Dozier / Escobar
    Florimon / Escobar
    Plouffe / ?
    OF / Arcia / Parm / Willingham / Presley
    CH / Hicks / Presley
    DH / Willingham / Parm

    The 13th guy would ideally be able to back-up 3rd or Escobar could be the back-up for 3rd. That might favor Bartlett as the 13th guy but he has yet to get a hit this spring. Romero seems like a stretch but at least he would be a RH bat of the bench. Has he ever played in the OF?

  16. #93
    Hicks needs to prove that he can hit AAA pitching before he ever plays another ML game. And as for Arcia, his fielding in left or right is subpar, and his swing has a bit of a slow-pitch softball style to it which is easy for a ML pitcher to take advantage of. If Parmelee can shorten his swing, I think he still has a chance to be an effective ML player.

  17. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by scottz View Post
    I don't think it's a matter of being crazy. There are certainly reasons that each of them could have more time in AAA. But what is really blocking them? For example, how is age 32 and slipping badly Jason Kubel a better option than age 23 and growing Oswaldo Arcia? If it is because Arcia struck out 31% of the time last year, well, so did Kubel. Give me the youngster. Give me Pinto at least half time instead of Fryer a quarter of the time. There will be some growing pains, but if we don't have the kids on the roster it isn't like the pain will go away. It will just be aging pain instead of growing pain.

    My roster:
    OF - Willingham, Hicks, Arcia, Parmelee, Presley
    IF - Plouffe, Florimon, Dozier, Mauer, Escobar
    C - Suzuki, Pinto
    Bench - right handed bat. i don't really care who this is, as along as they are willing to step in and swing hard at a moment's notice. maybe 1 game a week they are in the line up.
    SP - Nolasco, Hughes, Correia, Pelfrey, Worley
    BP - Perkins, Burton, Duensing, Fien, Swarzak, Thielbar, Deduno (Long Relief)

    Goodbye to Diamond. Gibson to AAA because of the FA signings and the mess of out of option players. Hopefully he's throwing well when someone gets a blister or achey shoulder.
    I couldn't agree with this more. Plug Colabello into the 25th spot and you have a mix of young guys getting a shot (Hicks, Arcia, Pinto), veterans that could be traded if they get off to a good start (Willingham, Corriea, Burton), and some younger guys in the minors ready to come up if needed (Gibson, Meyer, Tonkin, Santana, etc).

  18. #95
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    Sounds like Gardenhire wants Deduno (starter or bullpen):
    http://blogs.twincities.com/twins/20...pot-somewhere/

  19. #96
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwinsTerritory View Post
    I couldn't agree with this more. Plug Colabello into the 25th spot and you have a mix of young guys getting a shot (Hicks, Arcia, Pinto), veterans that could be traded if they get off to a good start (Willingham, Corriea, Burton), and some younger guys in the minors ready to come up if needed (Gibson, Meyer, Tonkin, Santana, etc).
    I'm conflicted about Colabello. First of all, he's 30. Secondly, he failed in his big league trial last year. Thirdly, he's a DH who can play some 1B, and hitting (for power and average) is his only real tool.

    On the plus side, he tore up the minor leagues last year, has demonstrated real power, and he's a RH hitter on a club that lacks RH hitting.

    I think what sours me, though, is his awkward stance and long swing. He's done great so far this spring, but his hits have been almost exclusively against minor leaguers. I'll withhold judgment about his "improvements" this spring until he gets his hits against front-line pitchers.

  20. #97
    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrylos View Post
    The Twins said that Polanco will play full time SS this season. His contact and eye are better than almost all Twins' infielders (save Rosario, maybe.) This is the guy who could be the Twins next great SS, if his fielding holds up. He has made tremendous strides at fielding and it mostly is a range issue at this point.
    The Twins have never said that Polanco will play SS full time. They have said that he will continue to play at SS. Today, Rob Antony said that they want him to continue to play SS, but he will certainly continue to play 2B as well.

  21. #98
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukingood View Post
    Hicks needs to prove that he can hit AAA pitching before he ever plays another ML game. And as for Arcia, his fielding in left or right is subpar, and his swing has a bit of a slow-pitch softball style to it which is easy for a ML pitcher to take advantage of. If Parmelee can shorten his swing, I think he still has a chance to be an effective ML player.
    Everybody has issues. Presley has issues. Mastro has issues. Parmelee has issues. It's not clear to me that AAA is the place to fix every issue. If not, why send guys down and force the team to be worse than they would be with more talented (and still developing) players? If they can learn up here and they're the best players right now, bring them north.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  22. #99
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    stringer bell - tearing up the minor leagues is not a plus now nor has it ever been. Some players simply cannot hit MLB pitching and it appears Colabello is on a long list as one of them.

  23. #100
    Senior Member All-Star crarko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    Sounds like Gardenhire wants Deduno (starter or bullpen):
    http://blogs.twincities.com/twins/20...pot-somewhere/
    Reading that certainly implies that the notion Deduno start the season on the DL is pretty unlikely. Unless some new injury occurs.

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