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Thread: Is Pinto getting a fair shake?

  1. #41
    It is a shame though as I feel they are just wasting time with Suzuki. He can not hit at all no matter what he does in the spring and is not an everyday catcher in reality. And I can understand if you are the Braves, or Yankees who are built to win it all now going with Suzuki but the Twins are not winning it all this year so let Pinto learn on the job

  2. #42
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Labruno View Post
    It is a shame though as I feel they are just wasting time with Suzuki. He can not hit at all no matter what he does in the spring and is not an everyday catcher in reality. And I can understand if you are the Braves, or Yankees who are built to win it all now going with Suzuki but the Twins are not winning it all this year so let Pinto learn on the job
    I honestly wonder if there isn't more pressure to win this year than we know about. That would explain to me why the Twins would want these new pitchers (veteran though they are) to have an experienced backstop because they are going to have to have some pretty good pitching with their somewhat anemic offense (and while Pinto adds on the offensive side, the Twins have had a bit of a love affair with defensive catchers at times).

    While many of us would rather see some of the more advanced prospects get the bulk of playing time, it was pretty clear that ownership is looking for more W's. The Twins need to stop the season ticket sale slide and their best bet for doing that is putting a product on the field that is competitive deeper into the season. In the long run, I think that may delay development a bit but it does explain both the pitcher signings and the "back to the future" minor league deals to Kubel, Guerrier and Bartlett.

  3. #43
    Senior Member MVP
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    Season ticket sales are based on the previous year's results. So, maybe having old guys around to win 2 more games helps, but I don't know if these vets are actually better than the young guys.....and losing Sano is a HUGE blow to ticket sales this year and next year. HUGE.
    Lighten up Francis....

  4. #44
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    This suggests Gardy at least is on board with Pinto splitting time with Suzuki. Interesting he suggests pairing him up with starters he connects well with.


    http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/news/...nt_id=69227470

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by SydneyTwinsFan View Post
    This suggests Gardy at least is on board with Pinto splitting time with Suzuki. Interesting he suggests pairing him up with starters he connects well with.


    http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/news/...nt_id=69227470

    But then Gardy quashed the means by which to maximize Pinto's value and make the most sense in bringing him North:

    "I'm not looking for a DH candidate in (Pinto), I've already been [on] that route," Gardenhire said. "I need two catchers. If I have that, then I'm going to need three catchers, and I don't want to do that."

  6. #46
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    But then Gardy quashed the means by which to maximize Pinto's value and make the most sense in bringing him North:
    I hope he gets some opportunities to DH. But I hope he doesn't use him at DH too much. He can learn a lot sitting next to Steiny.

    One note of encouragement came from a quote by Correia after yesterday's game that he felt was working with Pinto to get ready for Opening Day. It sure sounded like the plan is to bring Pinto north.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  7. #47
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    I hope he gets some opportunities to DH. But I hope he doesn't use him at DH too much. He can learn a lot sitting next to Steiny.
    Coming up to bat five times, and hopefully being on base twice, should leave him three hours or so to sit next to Steiny.

  8. #48

    typical gardenhire

    The whole front office talks up pinto during the off season , and come showtime as in many other years gardy has no patience or time with young players as long as they keep dumpster diving for cheap veterans!!
    11
    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    Even though the money was minimal with Suzuki, clearly they should have just gone with Pinto and Herrmann, with Fryer in AAA as emergency.

  9. #49
    Senior Member All-Star YourHouseIsMyHouse's Avatar
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    He's 24 years old, wasn't challenged in AA or AAA, and doesn't have any legitimate players blocking him on a rebuilding team. In a word, yes.

    When it comes to cheap, gritty veterans, the Twins can't help themselves and have to start them regardless of all other factors.

  10. #50
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourHouseIsMyHouse View Post
    He's 24 years old, wasn't challenged in AA or AAA, and doesn't have any legitimate players blocking him on a rebuilding team. In a word, yes.

    When it comes to cheap, gritty veterans, the Twins can't help themselves and have to start them regardless of all other factors.
    Pinto will be 25 on Opening Day and he had less than 80 plate appearances at AAA. While I think he should go north with the Twins, I understand there are factors that could get him sent to Rochester. If he is the DH more than rarely, either he is a far better hitter than I thought or nobody on the team can hit.

  11. #51
    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    The signing of Suzuki wasn't a terrible one to begin with, but it has a chance to turn out that way if Pinto ends up playing only once or twice a week all season. It would be better to let him work on his defense in AAA until he's ready to push Suzuki to the bench and start around two thirds of the games.

    And however it was phrased, the Antony comment about weight isn't a good sign with respect to how highly they regard him. If there's organizational concern about conditioning, and therefore possibly even work ethic, well, it's going to be hard to overcome in the near term in a franchise that considers Spring Training to be Spring Tryouts. As far as I can remember, at least that hasn't been a recurring theme in the scouting reports on him.

    It's still disappointing to know that Gardy hasn't overcome his bizarre, inexplicable phobia of 'losing the DH' for two or three at bats when one of two catchers DH's. But at least he's made it clear that he'd rather have two non-DHable catchers than pretend it's the '80's and carry three, which is pretty much a 24 man roster.
    Last edited by LaBombo; 03-13-2014 at 07:15 PM.

  12. #52
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaBombo View Post
    The signing of Suzuki wasn't a terrible one to begin with, but it has a chance to turn out that way if Pinto ends up playing only once or twice a week all season. It would be better to let him work on his defense in AAA until he's ready to push Suzuki to the bench and start around two thirds of the games.

    And however it was phrased, the Antony comment about weight isn't a good sign with respect to how highly they regard him. If there's organizational concern about conditioning, and therefore possibly even work ethic, well, it's going to be hard to overcome in the near term in a franchise that considers Spring Training to be Spring Tryouts. As far as I can remember, at least that hasn't been a recurring theme in the scouting reports on him.

    It's still disappointing to know that Gardy hasn't overcome his bizarre, inexplicable phobia of 'losing the DH' for two or three at bats when one of two catchers DH's. But at least he's made it clear that he'd rather have two non-DHable catchers than pretend it's the '80's and carry three, which is pretty much a 24 man roster.
    I think Suzuki is a good mentor for Pinto. He might not hit much anymore, but he's a good receiver and he calls a good game. I'm sure he'll start the majority of the games to begin with, but he will become the backup. The catching position is not something that is easy to grow into. We are spoiled with Mauer, who seemed like he could call a good game at 20. Most catchers take into their mid-20s to learn the craft. Pinto is right on track, but he has a learning curve left. Suzuki can help him with this.

    I'm not as concerned about the DH thing because catchers need to give their hands days off. The catching position is much more of a grind in this day and age than it was before Moneyball. So many pitches. So much time in the crouch. It takes a toll.

    Now, when Gardy talks about Suzuki leading off, then I really get scared.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  13. #53
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    If a team uses their second catcher as the DH there is a real loss of flexibility. If Pinto were the DH, then Gardy couldn't run or hit for Suzuki without losing the DH. Hitting or running for Pinto would leave no backup for Suzuki for the balance of the game. It is different than when Maher was involved, since there was never a strategic reason to remove him from the game. Although Doumit was a slow runner, he was a switch hitter and a better hitter than any bench alternative, so flexibility was seldom an issue.

  14. #54
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringer bell View Post
    If a team uses their second catcher as the DH there is a real loss of flexibility. If Pinto were the DH, then Gardy couldn't run or hit for Suzuki without losing the DH. Hitting or running for Pinto would leave no backup for Suzuki for the balance of the game.
    Ok but how often would either of those outcomes actually happen and specifically, how often would there be any real cost to losing the DH for an at-bat, or needing a 3rd catcher? We are talking about potentially handicapping the lineup (when a RH DH would be preferred) and sacrificing 1/25th the roster on two redundant continengies for doomsday scenarios that almost never happen.

  15. #55
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SydneyTwinsFan View Post
    This suggests Gardy at least is on board with Pinto splitting time with Suzuki. Interesting he suggests pairing him up with starters he connects well with.

    http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/news/...nt_id=69227470
    I was on board with Gardy until I read this

    "I'm not looking for a DH candidate in a catcher, I've already been [on] that route," Gardenhire said. "I need two catchers. If I have that, then I'm going to need three catchers, and I don't want to do that."

  16. #56
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    Oh wait, duh. Pinto in left field and Hammer to DH when facing a lefty. Double doomsday scenario averted.

  17. #57
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    Ok but how often would either of those outcomes actually happen and specifically, how often would there be any real cost to losing the DH for an at-bat, or needing a 3rd catcher? We are talking about potentially handicapping the lineup (when a RH DH would be preferred) and sacrificing 1/25th the roster on two redundant continengies for doomsday scenarios that almost never happen.
    I would assume the Twins will be behind a run or two and will want to hit for Suzuki quite as a few times. I would assume they would tie or go ahead somewhere between a few and a dozen times and if Pinto is DH, they would lose the DH. They would be locked in with Pinto at DH, unable to run or hit for him, except in the most desperate situations. I don't see Pinto as such a superior hitter that it would justify limiting bench moves on a regular basis.

  18. #58
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    I think Hammer and Plouffe should be the principle DHs against lefties. If Colabello makes the team, he's the logical choice.

  19. #59
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringer bell View Post
    I think Hammer and Plouffe should be the principle DHs against lefties. If Colabello makes the team, he's the logical choice.
    I'm kind of hoping Colabello makes the team. That means they carry 12 pitchers (logical considering their offseason acquisitions), they only carry one utility infielder (no need for two), and two catchers. A Colabello/Kubel platoon at DH seems a lot more comfortable, especially with Kubel's .679 career OPS against lefties.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  20. #60
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringer bell View Post
    I would assume the Twins will be behind a run or two and will want to hit for Suzuki quite as a few times. I would assume they would tie or go ahead somewhere between a few and a dozen times and if Pinto is DH, they would lose the DH. They would be locked in with Pinto at DH, unable to run or hit for him, except in the most desperate situations. I don't see Pinto as such a superior hitter that it would justify limiting bench moves on a regular basis.
    I guess my qualm is with the mindset that says you try to win the game in late innings rather than putting your best team forward from the get-go. I think back to the 2010 team with Thome at DH and all the 1st inning runs we scored. We ended up with well over 100 first inning runs, it gave us a huge advantage and allowed pitchers to just groove strikes and put opposition batters in a defensive posture. As compared to recent Twins teams always digging out of a early hole, and our batters strikeout swinging at bad pitches in a desperate attempt to muster a comeback. Games are as often won and lost in the first 4-5 innings as they are in the 8th and 9th, maybe more often.

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