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Thread: Is Pinto getting a fair shake?

  1. #21
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    In order to get out of the cycle of mediocrity, the Twins are going to need to invest in the uncertainty of upside. Playing mediocre veterans just adds to the cycle and adds nothing to the future.

    When Hicks struggled and the plan B Mastroianni was injured there was no viable plan C. The same could happen this year if Pinto is made the starter and struggles while Suzuki is injured. Eric Fryer will be the Clete Thomas of catchers.

    Most young players are going to struggle. It takes a lot of plate appearances to adjust and readjust to major league pitching. I hope the Twins make that investment in Pinto so by 2016 he is either established as a regular or the Twins have moved on.

    If the Twins base decisions on catcher this year based on Hicks' struggles last year, it will be a mistake.

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  3. #22
    As someone said a few posts back. The Twins are not a playoff team this year so you play the young upside guy and give him time to get to know his pitchers and a full season to see what he has. As for Hicks no worries Buxton is going to be a stud

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  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jorgenswest View Post
    In order to get out of the cycle of mediocrity, the Twins are going to need to invest in the uncertainty of upside. Playing mediocre veterans just adds to the cycle and adds nothing to the future.

    When Hicks struggled and the plan B Mastroianni was injured there was no viable plan C. The same could happen this year if Pinto is made the starter and struggles while Suzuki is injured. Eric Fryer will be the Clete Thomas of catchers.

    Most young players are going to struggle. It takes a lot of plate appearances to adjust and readjust to major league pitching. I hope the Twins make that investment in Pinto so by 2016 he is either established as a regular or the Twins have moved on.

    If the Twins base decisions on catcher this year based on Hicks' struggles last year, it will be a mistake.
    It's not based on a single player. It's based on the fact that young players routinely struggle. And when the backup is Eric Fryer then that young player is going to feel considerably more pressure because he knows that he is the guy. If Pinto is in a 50/50 playing time arrangement with Suzuki then he's getting plenty of AB's and he's getting days off to process all of stuff that is going on around him. This is especially needed as a rookie catcher that supposedly still needs work defensively.

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  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marta Shearing View Post
    Everything was predetermined long before spring training that pinto wasnt making the team. He's being punished for being too good a hitter, because surely a catcher who hits that good must be bad at handling pitchers. Antony was on the radio at the very beginning of ST saying Pinto was fat. He never had a chance.

    The only thing that was probably "predetermined" was the need to have a backup plan should Pinto not quite be ready for the job. The notion of the Twins assuming Pinto is bad at handling pitchers because he can hit and is being punished for being a good hitter? How dumb do you think these people are? Such silliness.
    Last edited by ChiTownTwinsFan; 03-07-2014 at 09:01 PM.

  8. #25
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kab21 View Post
    It's not based on a single player. It's based on the fact that young players routinely struggle. And when the backup is Eric Fryer then that young player is going to feel considerably more pressure because he knows that he is the guy. If Pinto is in a 50/50 playing time arrangement with Suzuki then he's getting plenty of AB's and he's getting days off to process all of stuff that is going on around him. This is especially needed as a rookie catcher that supposedly still needs work defensively.
    This is a great take.....no when are we going to start doing it? The Twins have always taken the "All or Nothing" approach with young players and their at-bats. That's part of the problem.

    It's possible that your take is right (I believe so) and that jorgen can be also. It's the Twins that seem to disagree with that model unfortunately.

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  10. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    This is a great take.....no when are we going to start doing it? The Twins have always taken the "All or Nothing" approach with young players and their at-bats. That's part of the problem.

    It's possible that your take is right (I believe so) and that jorgen can be also. It's the Twins that seem to disagree with that model unfortunately.
    Catcher is a bit different than other positions though. They always get days off and they are always dinged up. Having depth is good even if it's a no upside veteran.

  11. #27
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    Didn't want to start a new thread on this but found this column on Stuart Turner interesting:

    http://blogs.twincities.com/twins/20...rry-steinbach/


    I hope a catcher with a 4.0 GPA is more acceptable than a smart player at other positions.

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  13. #28
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    What really makes anybody think that Pinto is not getting a "fair shake"? It is clearly in the Twins best interest to give him every chance to become the starting catcher, soon if not immediately. He is the best near ready option in the Twins system, and they made no real effort to find a long term solution from outside the system. It seems fairly obvious the Twins want Pinto to establish himself as their starting catcher.

    The really question seems to be the best way for that to happen. Complaining about him not getting enough playing time during the first week of spring training seems a bit silly. I don't really know exactly the best way to get Pinto ready to be a starting big league catcher. I would assume that unless he struggles in some key areas this spring, he will likely have a good chance to start the year in some sort time share arrangement with Suzuki. That might not happen for any number of reasons.
    Last edited by ashburyjohn; 03-07-2014 at 10:50 PM. Reason: remove disrespect for a fellow poster

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  15. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim H View Post
    What really makes anybody think that Pinto is not getting a "fair shake"? It is clearly in the Twins best interest to give him every chance to become the starting catcher, soon if not immediately. He is the best near ready option in the Twins system, and they made no real effort to find a long term solution from outside the system. It seems fairly obvious the Twins want Pinto to establish himself as their starting catcher.

    The really question seems to be the best way for that to happen. Complaining about him not getting enough playing time during the first week of spring training seems a bit silly. I don't really know exactly the best way to get Pinto ready to be a starting big league catcher. I would assume that unless he struggles in some key areas this spring, he will likely have a good chance to start the year in some sort time share arrangement with Suzuki. That might not happen for any number of reasons.
    We will see if you feel the same way when he starts the season in the minors

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Labruno View Post
    We will see if you feel the same way when he starts the season in the minors
    If he starts the season in the minors, it will be because that's the best path for his future development, and not because the dozens of field staffers for the Twins who have a role in his development are taking some pre-determined course of action. And certainly not because they just don't understand that the option exists to let him take his lumps up here. These people know what they're doing.

  17. #31
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    Has Pinto's rookie contract clock started ticking? I remember him being a September call-up last year which does not count toward the total because of the expanded rosters? So then we will probably see him called up to start in June once he can no longer qualify as a super 2 if he sticks in the majors. Another year of control before arbitration for a potential starting catcher would be a fair trade in my mind.

  18. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jham View Post
    Has Pinto's rookie contract clock started ticking? I remember him being a September call-up last year which does not count toward the total because of the expanded rosters? So then we will probably see him called up to start in June once he can no longer qualify as a super 2 if he sticks in the majors. Another year of control before arbitration for a potential starting catcher would be a fair trade in my mind.
    This would mean that he wouldn't be eligible for arbitration until after 2017?

  19. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by birdwatcher View Post
    If he starts the season in the minors, it will be because that's the best path for his future development, and not because the dozens of field staffers for the Twins who have a role in his development are taking some pre-determined course of action. And certainly not because they just don't understand that the option exists to let him take his lumps up here. These people know what they're doing.
    I think it's fair to discuss what might be the best course of action. The dozens of field staffers might know what they're doing, but then again it's been a decade or so since they placed an impact player on the Twins roster.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

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  21. #34
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    To avoid Super 2, Pinto would have to wait until August. The extra year of team control would start a few days into May.

  22. #35
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    If Pinto is the future catcher, then I feel he needs to be in the majors. So agree with JL's original post. Maybe Pinto should have come up in 2012 too. I don't know what his 40-man status was in 2012.

    Options options options. I get the sense that player decisions are being made based on some perceived administrative benefit, rather than who can just play better. I get the sense this has been building for a few years now. I'm hoping we put the best 25 players on the team to start the season, regardless of player development rules. They need to be considered, no doubt. But sheesh.

    I will also take this moment to lobby for Gibson again

  23. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    I think it's fair to discuss what might be the best course of action. The dozens of field staffers might know what they're doing, but then again it's been a decade or so since they placed an impact player on the Twins roster.
    Of course it's fair to discuss it. You and I have different definitions of impact players I guess, but that's hardly relevant. They go through the same drill regardless of the quality of player. What's relevant to me is that you and I have NEVER placed an impact player on a roster and wouldn't know much about what it entails. So, while I respect your thoughts on the best course of action, I'll probably find the Twin's explanation of the decision to be pretty sound, given their familiarity with all the important details.

  24. #37
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Labruno View Post
    As someone said a few posts back. The Twins are not a playoff team this year
    I don't know about playoffs (*) or not, but I would not bet against the Twins making the post-season with a revamped rotation, a dedication to younger players (like Hicks, Pinto, Arcia all starting) a better fielding team (which means Mr Willingham, you are slitting DH duties with Mr Parmelee) and hitters hitting up to their potential.

    If the Fryers and the Presleys and the Bartletts of the world start, then it is a different story...


    (*) there are not playoffs in baseball other than a potential play in game. On the same line, and totally disappointing, on the MLB Network guide today, Spring Training games were listed as "pre-season" games. That's what happens when football people are dealing with baseball
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  25. #38
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jham View Post
    Has Pinto's rookie contract clock started ticking? I remember him being a September call-up last year which does not count toward the total because of the expanded rosters?
    Every day spent on the major league roster counts toward service time, September included, up to a max of 172 days in any single season.

    Pinto has 30 days of ML service as of now.
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ball… and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
    - Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's

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  27. #39
    I know its all but been said Suzuki is the starter and my guess is Pinto will go down because they want him to pay every day. But even in his very limited action everytime Pinto plays he does something productive. Gets a hit, draws walks, I like the kid

  28. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Labruno View Post
    I know its all but been said Suzuki is the starter and my guess is Pinto will go down because they want him to pay every day. But even in his very limited action everytime Pinto plays he does something productive. Gets a hit, draws walks, I like the kid
    Yes, he's fun to watch. But we should remember that the Twins liked the kid long before any of us did, back when his minor league stats looked pretty bad. They have every incentive to place him on the big club. It will be up to Pinto to demonstrate that he's ready. We may not be able to really see the signs that he needs more development time though, because they'll likely be about how he's handling himself behind the plate. Hopefully he'll be ready.

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