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Thread: Berardino: Gardy's Comments on Attitude

  1. #21
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    I'm glad to see that some personality is welcomed in the Twins locker room.

    I don't know that I like the talk about a "line" that may or may not be toed though. A line is pretty subjective, who's in charge of setting the "line" that should not be crossed? And is that line consistant for all players or does it get moved depending on the players skill level or frequency of instances of "attitude"?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dman View Post

    I always thought most everyone reviled the show boaters of the world and were only to happy when they were put back in their place. I don't know, I guess I am more into respecting your opponent, acting with good sportsmanship and being a decent human being. I guess I am more into that than someone punching somebody, or calling them out or what ever this great passion stuff is.
    I would rather be reviled than dismissed entirely.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    I'm glad to see that some personality is welcomed in the Twins locker room.

    I don't know that I like the talk about a "line" that may or may not be toed though. A line is pretty subjective, who's in charge of setting the "line" that should not be crossed? And is that line consistant for all players or does it get moved depending on the players skill level or frequency of instances of "attitude"?
    Gardy, yes, no, yes

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by notoriousgod71 View Post
    I would rather be reviled than dismissed entirely.
    Are you AJ's agent in another life?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Are you AJ's agent in another life?
    I wish.

  6. #26
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    However, just like in the workforce, team dynamics can (and do) have an impact on performance. I think having a blend of personalities is incredibly important so that they work as positive forces for each other. And for me - I don't care if enthusiasm crosses into some sporadic showboating. Baseball is way too uptight for a game that gets played out in the sun, in beautiful weather, with a minimal of physicality. We as fans should lighten up about it and maybe the players will too. There's far too much pouting by millionaires about someone being excited about their achievements. If you don't like it - don't let them do it the next time.
    Agreed. Every organization I've been in my entire life--professional, personal, recreational--has been positively or negatively affected by leadership and "chemistry." I doubt professional baseball is markedly different.Of course talent is necessary, but the W/L record rarely perfectly mirrors talent level. I believe there's more at play than just talent.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

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  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by notoriousgod71 View Post
    I would rather be reviled than dismissed entirely.
    I guess I don't completely understand what you mean. A home run show boated is worth more than one that is not? Or excellence is only acknowledged when show boating? I am not sure I follow.

  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    Agreed. Every organization I've been in my entire life--professional, personal, recreational--has been positively or negatively affected by leadership and "chemistry." I doubt professional baseball is markedly different.Of course talent is necessary, but the W/L record rarely perfectly mirrors talent level. I believe there's more at play than just talent.
    The problem is then why poor over stats? Why give stats such importance when it is leadership that matters so much. Stop talking about WAR, OPS etc because if they don;t have passion they just aren't worth it. I don't think you can have it both ways. As long as someone isn't disruptive to the club house how much influence do they have? Games come down to performance. Stats define performance and that is why players are measured by them and not their leadership qualities.

  10. #29
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    No, it doesn't come down entirely to performance -- especially when one is talking about a rung lower than the very top performers in the game.

    We are all more willing to put up with a cr*ppy attitude from a "Superstar" ... not so much when it comes to a journeyman.

    Statistics are important. They are not the be all or end all.

  11. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dman View Post
    I guess I am lost and will likely always be lost on the cocky, passion players. I thought that when you were a true professional you were more Zen than a bundle of anger and emotion. Sure internally there is that inner drive to compete but that comes naturally to anyone who plays the game, but being cocky and rubbing it your opponents nose is the thing the Twins desperately need?

    I thought the idea in sports was to not let the other guys get in your head and make you show emotion and take you out of your game. I thought the idea was to remain calm and focused at all times so that you have the best chance to succeed.

    I always thought most everyone reviled the show boaters of the world and were only to happy when they were put back in their place. I don't know, I guess I am more into respecting your opponent, acting with good sportsmanship and being a decent human being. I guess I am more into that than someone punching somebody, or calling them out or what ever this great passion stuff is.
    uh, Micheal Jordan "talked trash". So did many other of the great players.

  12. #31
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    With a 1-1 count in the fifth inning, Liberatore buzzed Arcia with two straight fastballs that spun the young lefty slugger off the plate. Arcia swung as hard as he could at the 3-1 pitch but fouled it off.
    Next pitch: Right-field bullpen.
    Love that.

    I hope Hammer teaches Arcia the fine art of taking one off your front tricep. Seems like he'll get plenty of opportunities.

  13. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwak View Post
    uh, Micheal Jordan "talked trash". So did many other of the great players.
    Sure but did you admire him for that? Is the trash talk what made him better than his peers? Because that is the correlation so many on here want to make. He had drive he had talent a rare talent at that. But he could have been humble about it and been looked at in a better light than he is. His talent wouldn't have changed he would just be a better human being.

  14. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Garza, Lohse, Hardy and Gomez?
    Garza: Dealt from a position of perceived strength for a very highly touted prospect with attitude of his own

    Loshe: took a baseball bat to his manager's door. If you don't think that earns you a ticket out, you and I will need to agree to disagree because I'm not changing my mind on the acceptability of that action.

    Gomez: I've heard there were coachability questions regarding understanding signs and fundamentals (loose canons), but was another position of strength deal to shore up other areas. The balance between having attitude and accepting coaching can be discussed, I suppose. Doubt he was run out due to being "fiery" though.

    Hardy: has there been any indication he was moved due to having an attitude? If so, I missed it.

  15. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by notoriousgod71 View Post
    My favorite Twins team is the 2001-02 team that had AJ, Doug, Ortiz, Hunter, Guardado, Romero, Hawkins. This is half the reason why the news on Sano is so disappointing. I was hoping to see him incite a few riots this season after a slow homerun trot.
    I'll take the '87 group over this group any day of the week and twice on Tuesday. Gladden, Puckett, Brunansky, Bush, Gaetti, Hrbek, Viola, Blyleven, Berenguer, Reardon. They had attitude, but they actually backed it up with WINNING.

  16. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Dman View Post
    The problem is then why poor over stats? Why give stats such importance when it is leadership that matters so much. Stop talking about WAR, OPS etc because if they don;t have passion they just aren't worth it. I don't think you can have it both ways. As long as someone isn't disruptive to the club house how much influence do they have? Games come down to performance. Stats define performance and that is why players are measured by them and not their leadership qualities.
    Say you have two teams with identical talent. One team hates losing. The other team could care less if they win or lose. I have no doubt in my mind the team that hates to lose will win more games. It's troubling that the game has turned into people crunching formula's and numbers on their laptop. I'm with Gus and Mickey on this one. I'm glad Philip got fired.
    Last edited by Marta Shearing; 03-03-2014 at 12:10 PM.

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  18. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marta Shearing View Post
    Say you have two teams with identical talent. One team hates losing. The other team could care less if they win or lose. I have no doubt in my mind the team that hates to lose will win more games. It's troubling that the game has turned into people crunching formula's and numbers on their laptop. I'm with Gus and Mickey on this one. I'm glad Philip got fired.
    Yeah but here's the rub. Nobody likes to lose and they aren't going to just lay down. Regardless of your perception it just doesn't happen. Also if players fail to perform they will lose their jobs and they don't want that to happen and that is why they practice every day and even over the off season to get better. Those that do not are likely to be gone.

    Now the fact that said players might not be as good as other teams seems a more likely scenario and I think if you look at the stats you will see that. I can't think of a time I stepped onto a field ready to lose or not caring about winning the game. You play games to win. Whether you have the talent to so that is another story. If the two teams are as equal as you say they should come close to 50\50 split.

    Show me a player or team that likes to lose and I will accept your premise but I don;t think it exists.

  19. #37
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    Attitude!


  20. #38
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    20-5 Attitude!!


  21. #39
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    Get Fired up!


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  23. #40
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    A lot of culture flows from the top down. If the players are lethargic, that's a failing of management too.

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