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Thread: Article: It's Official: Sano to have Tommy John Surgery

  1. #141
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo92107 View Post
    Besides getting the elbow fixed, Miguel Sano should use this time to go to school. Learn better English, learn enough math to do his own taxes, learn to drive a car, etc. I hope he gets a Volvo. Boxy, but nice.
    Kyle Gibson used his rehab time wisely. He memorized the entire works of Dr Seuss, became a brown-belt yodeler, and reconditioned several vintage Duesenbergs.

  2. #142
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Question: How common is it for partial tears to heal? I'm not aware of a case. Anybody?
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    Question: How common is it for partial tears to heal? I'm not aware of a case. Anybody?
    Albert Pujols has had a partial tear in his elbow since 2003. He has had bone spurs removed and nerve transposition in his elbow but not TJ surgery.

  4. #144
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    This is a portion of a post by Heezy1323 in the "Ligaments Are Stuipid" thread. Heezy is an orthopedist who has actually taken training under Dr. James Andrews (given the quality of his/her posts and previous posts, I believe that he/she is telling the truth about that):

    Most guys that have UCL reconstruction don't have a completely torn ligament on MRI. The vast majority (probably 80% or more) have a partial tear. Some can play with a partial tear... some can't. Many variables in play including mechanics, degree of partial tear, condition of shoulder/elbow musculature, etc. Many lay people (as well as many baseball people) assume the success rate of UCL reconstruction is 100%. Not true. It is a highly successful operation, but most literature puts success rate around 85-90%. So that means one out of ten is unable to return to the same level of play. This is the main reason for trying conservative treatment (rest, rehab, PRP) prior to proceeding with surgery. It is true some position players can play without an intact UCL, but these are usually not players at positions requiring hard throws (3B, RF).


    I reposted the info here because I think it gives some really good info. To me, it looks like the question isn't really whether the torn UCL would "heal" in the sense of repair itself (like most of us would anticipate) but that it would "improve"/"stabilize" in such a way that the player could continue to play even though the tear remains.

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  6. #145
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuchadoro View Post
    The Twins were not going to be a competitive team in 2014, with or without Sano. The only things I was looking forward to this year was the development of the top prospects and a starting rotation that is not as terrible as the previous couple of years. Hopefully we see Meyer, May, Hicks and others get their feet wet in the majors this year. I'm still excited about Arcia. But I can't help but feel that a lost season just got...more lost?
    There are still a ton of guys to watch this season. Arcia, Hicks, Gibson, and Meyer for starters.

    It sucks that Sano went down but he's not the only interesting story this year.

  7. #146
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    Assuming, of course, that any of those guys are here the first half of the year, Brock.
    Lighten up Francis....

  8. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuchadoro View Post
    The notion that Sano's injury is a blessing in disguise is laughable. Should we hope for all Twins prospects with 2014-15 ETAs to get injured in order to delay their service time?

    The Twins were not going to be a competitive team in 2014, with or without Sano. The only things I was looking forward to this year was the development of the top prospects and a starting rotation that is not as terrible as the previous couple of years. Hopefully we see Meyer, May, Hicks and others get their feet wet in the majors this year. I'm still excited about Arcia. But I can't help but feel that a lost season just got...more lost?
    I don't think the service time is the big issue here although it does guarantee the Twins more of Sano's prime. the big thing that I see is that it gives a really young prospect a little time to adjust and learn about baseball. His raw skill has pushed him faster than most prospects in any org but he is still 20 years old. I really hope that Sano uses his time better than Liriano though.

  9. #148
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    Assuming, of course, that any of those guys are here the first half of the year, Brock.
    Well, it was incredibly unlikely that Sano was going to be in Minnesota for the first half of the season so that really changes nothing.

  10. #149
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    That was clearly about Hicks, Arcia, Pinto, Gibson, Meyer, at least I thought that was clear.
    Lighten up Francis....

  11. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    There are still a ton of guys to watch this season. Arcia, Hicks, Gibson, and Meyer for starters.

    It sucks that Sano went down but he's not the only interesting story this year.
    And a possible opening for Santana if Florimon starts out on the DL?

  12. #151
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    • Phil Mackey ‏@PhilMackey 32m
      Rob Plummer, agent for Miguel Sano, says his client was 100% opposed to surgery, which is the main reason why it didn't happen in November.


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  14. #152
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    Do not worry Twins Fans, we will be looking good come 2016......yes 2 more years now. We just got "pushed back" a few years before contending again.

  15. #153
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    I still don't get why the surgery has to happen immediately. Does swinging a bat put the elbow at further risk?

  16. #154
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    • Phil Mackey ‏@PhilMackey 32m
      Rob Plummer, agent for Miguel Sano, says his client was 100% opposed to surgery, which is the main reason why it didn't happen in November.
    Well, there we go.

  17. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    I still don't get why the surgery has to happen immediately. Does swinging a bat put the elbow at further risk?
    Probably not. But Sano needs work on his fielding. Delaying the surgery would further delay his development.

  18. #156
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    And a possible opening for Santana if Florimon starts out on the DL?
    Hard to say. I'd have to believe that the Twins are at least a little gunshy about skipping levels after the Hicks fiasco.

  19. #157
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    Florimon is apparently healing pretty quickly. Taking swings off the tee already.

  20. #158
    Even if the surgery had been in November, this is more unfortunate for Miguel Sano in 2014, but of limited importance to the Twins in 2014. However, it could turn out to be good news for both Sano and the Twins in 2015.

    You'd think it would go without saying, but some comments seem annoyed that he did not have surgery earlier. Surgery is painful and all surgeries have risks of being effective or worse, even if done by the best surgeon, and recovery is lonely and a lot less fun than playing a game like baseball. There is also continued doubt about whether you will lose your fitness or technique. His schedule makes complete sense - he should, as he is doing, take a few weeks to relax and see his family, because once he has the surgery, he is going to commence a well-established, but arduous path of recovery. All of us need to wish him well as he goes through this process. Second-guessing the timing doesn't help anyone and is also based only on the weak circumstantial evidence of "they seem to have been wrong before; therefore, I think they were wrong this time, also."

    However, even if the timing was wrong, it is of little impact on the Twins. If Sano had had surgery in November, as some comments suggest, AND, if he had recovered sufficiently to play for the Twins after 8-10 months AND play well, his impact on the Twins in 2014 would have been small. Last year, Trevor Plouffe was a 1.9 WAR (BRef). Miguel Cabrera, in his rookie year (which could be one of the best comps for Miguel Sano), was less than a 1.0 WAR (BRef). At best, if he had surgery, Sano would have played half a season. Even if - in that half-year - he produced better than Cabrera did in his rookie season and Plouffe has a bad year (my guess is that Plouffe has an OK year this year), the difference between them would have been small, so the impact of Sano on the team in 2014 would have been small. Frankly, the best chance for Sano to meaningfully impact the Twins in 2014 would have been for rest and recovery to have succeeded, so that he could play the full year.

    Now, he is going to spend a year getting in shape. He's going to work on strengthening exercises that he may not have been able to do this past year, out of worry that they would have hurt him. He's also going to feel like he has something to prove, likely even more than he does regularly. When he comes to 2015 spring training, he'll likely have a chip on his shoulder that meets Gardy's newly stated preference for players with attitude. Unless there is a setback in his surgery or recovery, he will make it clear that he belongs in the majors in 2015.

    There is precedent. In 1994, Chipper Jones was about to start his rookie year as the Braves' third baseman when he tore up his knee. He missed the whole year, but came back the next year and was a major contributor to the Braves' winning the World Series. For a non-pitcher, a knee is worse than an elbow. Although it is tough to predict a World Series for a team that doesn't have a pitching staff equivalent to Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, etc., it seems realistic that Sano could have an impact on the 2015 Twins equivalent to the impact Chipper Jones had on the 1995 Braves.

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  22. #159
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    I for one do not think Sano's impact in 2015 on the Twins is equivalent, way too much to consider yet. For one thing Chipper will be in the Hall, will Miguel?

  23. #160
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deduno Abides View Post
    [Well thought out prose]
    The Jesus approves. Welcome.

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