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Thread: Diamondbacks looking for C (Pinto?) for SS (Owens/Didi).

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    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Diamondbacks looking for C (Pinto?) for SS (Owens/Didi).

    MLBtraderumors suggests that the Diamondbacks are looking for a young catcher for one of their ML ready SS. Would you give up Pinto (plus something more?) to get one of these guys?

    I sure would.

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    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Not really, then suddenly Catcher becomes a black hole for the org.
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- L. Harvey Oswald


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    Then who is your catcher? though I still might do it, I'm not sure.
    Lighten up Francis....

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    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    I think it will be far easier to find a catcher via FA or develop one in our minors; than it is to get an elite SS. I'm not sure that Pinto has the defensive chops to be the Twins everyday catcher. Might as well capitalize on his perceived value...

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    Senior Member All-Star Boom Boom's Avatar
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    Sign Drew.

    But yeah, I'd trade Pinto for either of those guys, depending on what the additional player(s) involved would be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boom Boom View Post
    Sign Drew.
    I think this proposal speaks to why signing FA like Drew is a good play for the Twins right now. We don't really have extra assets anywhere that we can afford to deal. We need good luck with most of our current youngsters PLUS a few more pieces.

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    We have lots of AAAA pitchers to deal......maybe even a number 4/5 that could be dealt, since they have other options.

    I'm confused that the line for SS is elite, but it is "easy" to find "a" catcher. It's not hard to find "a" SS either. I don't share the general disdain for Pinto's catching that others seem to have. I don't know if either of these is "elite" at SS.

    Interestingly, KLAW said today he thinks Franklin's bat might be good enough to make up for his 1-6 runs his defensive definciencies are probably costing.
    Lighten up Francis....

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    Senior Member Triple-A B Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spycake View Post
    I think this proposal speaks to why signing FA like Drew is a good play for the Twins right now. We don't really have extra assets anywhere that we can afford to deal. We need good luck with most of our current youngsters PLUS a few more pieces.
    What kind of contract would you give Drew (mostly talking years...)? Do you think he will sustain his talent long enough to be a real piece of the Twins once we are a contender? (think 2016-beyond).

    I don't think it's worth signing Drew to a 1-2 year contract. Two years on a transition team only bails water out of the boat- it doesn't plug the hole. At the same time, I have a hard time believing his talent will last long enough to be a part of the Twins future. Ergo, I wouldn't really be a big fan of the signing altogether.

    Now, depending on how much risk you want to take, you might consider Tulo in next year's free agent crop, assuming he doesn't get extended by the Rockies. That's a move I would seriously consider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    I think it will be far easier to find a catcher via FA or develop one in our minors; than it is to get an elite SS.
    While I don't disagree with the statement itself, neither Gregorius or Owings are even remotely close to what I'd consider elite.


    Just for comparison sake, one of these is Gregorius the other is Florimon:

    Player A 2013: 403 AB / 44 Runs / 9 HR / 44 RBI / .221 Avg / .281 OBP / .611 OPS / 2.1 WAR
    Player B 2013: 357 AB / 47 Runs / 7 HR / 28 RBI / .252 Avg / .332 OBP / .705 OPS / 1.4 WAR

    Player A minors (7 seasons): 2556 AB / 341 Runs / 32 HR / 275 RBI / .249 Avg / .321 OBP / .675 OPS
    Player B minors (6 seasons): 1766 AB / 236 Runs / 22 HR / 168 RBI / .273 Avg / .324 OBP / .705 OPS

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    Neither will Pelfrey, or Floriman, or Suzuki, or most of the RP on the roster. Probably not Plouffe. Probably not most of the guys on the roster. But at some point, signing Drew costs nothing other than money. If you are willing to sign Suzuki or Pelfrey, it is hard to understand not signing Drew.
    Lighten up Francis....

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    Quote Originally Posted by B Richard View Post
    What kind of contract would you give Drew (mostly talking years...)? Do you think he will sustain his talent long enough to be a real piece of the Twins once we are a contender? (think 2016-beyond).

    I don't think it's worth signing Drew to a 1-2 year contract. Two years on a transition team only bails water out of the boat- it doesn't plug the hole. At the same time, I have a hard time believing his talent will last long enough to be a part of the Twins future. Ergo, I wouldn't really be a big fan of the signing altogether.

    Now, depending on how much risk you want to take, you might consider Tulo in next year's free agent crop, assuming he doesn't get extended by the Rockies. That's a move I would seriously consider.
    Tulowitski is a pipe dream. Guess who will be looking for a SS next year? Hint: they can afford anybody.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    MLBtraderumors suggests that the Diamondbacks are looking for a young catcher for one of their ML ready SS. Would you give up Pinto (plus something more?) to get one of these guys?

    I sure would.
    Sounds like they only are asking for a catcher. Why would we want to give them more then what they want? If we have to send two prospects the best catcher I would send would be Turner or Knudson

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    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S. View Post
    While I don't disagree with the statement itself, neither Gregorius or Owings are even remotely close to what I'd consider elite.


    Just for comparison sake, one of these is Gregorius the other is Florimon:

    Player A 2013: 403 AB / 44 Runs / 9 HR / 44 RBI / .221 Avg / .281 OBP / .611 OPS / 2.1 WAR
    Player B 2013: 357 AB / 47 Runs / 7 HR / 28 RBI / .252 Avg / .332 OBP / .705 OPS / 1.4 WAR

    Player A minors (7 seasons): 2556 AB / 341 Runs / 32 HR / 275 RBI / .249 Avg / .321 OBP / .675 OPS
    Player B minors (6 seasons): 1766 AB / 236 Runs / 22 HR / 168 RBI / .273 Avg / .324 OBP / .705 OPS
    Player A is also 3 years younger at was a top 70 prospect prior to last season.

    I'd still like to hold onto the little C depth we have, and just sign Drew.
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- L. Harvey Oswald


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    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwak View Post
    Tulowitski is a pipe dream. Guess who will be looking for a SS next year? Hint: they can afford anybody.
    Yeah, Tulo is going to be a 200 million type guy.
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- L. Harvey Oswald


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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Player A is also 3 years younger at was a top 70 prospect prior to last season.
    Player A is Pedro Florimon, Player B is Didi Gregorius.

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    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S. View Post
    Player A is Pedro Florimon, Player B is Didi Gregorius.
    Blah, yeah I mixed that up at the last second.
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- L. Harvey Oswald


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    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Owings would be worth the trade though, that bat appears to be legit. Doubftul they would trade him for just Pinto though... I'm guessing they would much rather part with Didi
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- L. Harvey Oswald


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    Quote Originally Posted by pierre75275 View Post
    Sounds like they only are asking for a catcher. Why would we want to give them more then what they want? If we have to send two prospects the best catcher I would send would be Turner or Knudson

    they are looking for MLB ready catchers. They are (and I know it is confusing to a Twins fan) trying to win now, not 3 years from now.
    Lighten up Francis....

  24. #19
    Senior Member All-Star Boom Boom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S. View Post
    While I don't disagree with the statement itself, neither Gregorius or Owings are even remotely close to what I'd consider elite.
    I don't think either of them will be elite, but I don't really think Pinto will be elite either.

    Honestly I think the Twins should cowboy up and pay the money for Drew, but if that wasn't a possibility, a 1-for-1 swap of Pinto for either Gregorius or Owings would sound palatable to me.

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    The way I see it with Gregorius, we'd basically be trading our only MLB ready catcher with a decent bat for a minor upgrade to Florimon, who has the advantage of being a top 100 prospect at one point. Problem is, his numbers in the minors and last year are more or less the same. Little bit better in some categories, little bit worse in others. No huge differences in their stats (at this point in their careers). Without Pinto though, we're going be watching a whole lot of Fryer/Herrmann at bats for a while.

    On the other hand, I don't know much at all about Owings, besides looking at some splits, but I thought this was an interesting quote that I grabbed from a Fantasy forum I frequent:

    He plays hard, is quick, and exciting to watch. Everything that I've read on him points to him being able to handle the rigors of SS at the MLB level, but I'm worried about his ability to CONSISTENTLY handle breaking pitches at the MLB level. why? this year, 6 BB and 52 K in 269 AB. While the K rate isn't HIDEOUS, it's not great. however, his BB rate is about the worst I've seen. he did not walk ONCE in the AFL last year in near 100 ABs. last year regular season, 132K, 24BB. the year before? 130K, 15BB.

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