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Thread: Article: Twins Organizational Depth Chart - Relief Pitchers

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    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    Article: Twins Organizational Depth Chart - Relief Pitchers


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    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    It seems like about the only sure thing is that there will be those not on your "Minnesota" list who will get an opportunity at some point in the season.

    It also seems like the Twins can usually develop an average to above-average bullpen even when everything else is a disaster.

    Note that says "usually" not "always".

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    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Minnesota: Glen Perkins, Jared Burton, Brian Duensing, Casey Fien, Caleb Thielbar, Anthony Swarzak, Ryan Pressly.
    with Deduno, Worley and Diamond out of options and the guys not in bold with options, a lot can happen. I seriously would be surprised if Thielbar and Pressly make the Twins this season.

    It is hard to separate pitchers between starters and relievers because starters who do not make the rotation can be relievers in a pinch.

    Also, IIRC you listed 6-7 starters in each minor league roster. Now there are 10-11 relievers there too. Soon will run out of space for position players

    I expect that several of these guys will get cut the coming month...
    Last edited by Thrylos; 02-23-2014 at 07:02 PM.
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    I agree, there are a lot of pitchers. In addition to Thrylos's points, I think there are several guys, if they are going to be around at all, belong at a level higher. Still, it will likely work itself out. There will be guys on the disabled list, and while I don't know who they are, there are guys who are on their last chance to remain in the organization. It does seem like there are more pitchers around than normal, though.

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    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    As each of the org depth charts have noted, there are extra names at each position and for each team. 1.) It shows that some guys won't make a certain team and why. 2.) some of those guys may be an age where they will be let go at the end of spring training. 3.) It's a look at everyone.

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    Three guys I expected to see either here or on the starters list (more likely here) and didn't, but maybe I missed them. Thoughts?

    Adrian Salcedo
    Tyler Stirewalt
    Chih-wei Hu

    Another guy is Tim Wood. I think he's technically still with the Twins org, but don't know what happened with his rehab, or if he's in their plans as opposed to they're just waiting for a time when they're allowed to release him.

    Echoing a theme from above, I count about 85 guys who should be with the Twins or the full season minor league teams. (That excludes the guys Seth already indicated were injured, but includes a few that Seth has at EST because I think it's time for them to sink or swim--and I'm not positive they'd even be allowed back on a rookie league team. It does not include all the really good starters that Seth thought would start at EST--I too think they'll start at EST.)

    If you figure 12 pitchers per roster--that may be wrong; I don't know what the roster limits are--that's 60 guys. If nobody else gets disabled (fat chance), that's 25 getting released. I can't find 25--or even 20 if you figure 5 more get disabled in spring training--that I'm ready to give up on.

  7. #7
    we can leave burton and his gas can behind. i know arsonists that are jealous!!

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    The Twins should be looking at carrying 6 bullpen guys, considering they're expecting significantly better pitching from the starters, but with guys like Diamond & Worley out of options they're more likely to carry 13 pitchers than 11! (Even though you'd hope there'd be barely enough work for 11)

    The relief corps for the franchise looks good; there are solid options for the MLB club and it seems like the team is learning that you can put together a good bullpen without spending huge sums of money on limited role-players. The club is still less than optimal in its bullpen deployment in games, but that's because of managing, not talent.

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    From reading various things on the web it appears 13 pitchers is what the roster will look like and I vehemently oppose that approach as it makes the rest of bench almost useless as far as pinch hitters being available. With the relative lack of a solid hitting starting lineup isn't this approach foolhardy at best? I sure think so.

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    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimv2 View Post
    Three guys I expected to see either here or on the starters list (more likely here) and didn't, but maybe I missed them. Thoughts?

    Adrian Salcedo
    Tyler Stirewalt
    Chih-wei Hu

    Another guy is Tim Wood. I think he's technically still with the Twins org, but don't know what happened with his rehab, or if he's in their plans as opposed to they're just waiting for a time when they're allowed to release him.
    I added those three names... Not sure how or why I missed them. Each is worth noting and has some upside. Wood was released. Not with the organization.

  11. #11
    Tim Wood was officially released by the Twins in late August.

    Yes, the Twins have to make decisions on Worley, Diamond and Dedunco. I always take myself that you should bring the best 25 north. But I'm sure the Twins will want to see if they can play and get value out of some folks, thus the option shuffle that will see Thielbar and Pressley at Rochester will most likely happen.

    There;s so much unnecessary chafe on the Rochester roster: Hoffman, Raley, Guerrier, Thompson, Pino. We don't know if Achter is the real thing. Who will close games, Tonkin? Oliveros is a sweet spot possibly. Guerra is still in the mix. Ibarra is a darkhorse, and if you are on the 40-man, you'll more than likely get the call before others. Who are the closers for each level?

    Vasquez? What's his story?

    There's like 10 too many relievers in the minors, not to mention the starters that need to find a home, possibly in the bullpen.

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    But the Twins love their veteran chaffe....AAA is clogged up with it, as is the bullpen. A team that limits its spending should use more cheap relievers, and less cheap position players. The Twins seem to have that backward (and not just now, imo).

    And the 40 man point is a good one, it's why many of us want the bad players off the 40 man, so that roster decisions are about the best players being up, not about service time (especially for relievers) and not about options left.
    Lighten up Francis....

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    10 too many relievers? Injuries should sort out that many.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosterman View Post
    ...
    We don't know if Achter is the real thing. Who will close games, Tonkin? Oliveros is a sweet spot possibly. Guerra is still in the mix. Ibarra is a darkhorse, and if you are on the 40-man, you'll more than likely get the call before others. Who are the closers for each level?

    ...

    There's like 10 too many relievers in the minors, not to mention the starters that need to find a home, possibly in the bullpen.
    I don't know much about Achter's "stuff" but his statistics have been pretty darn good since he was moved to the pen in 2012. He's moved 4 levels in 2 years. His highest ERA has been the 3.08 he posted in AAA last year and he has had a K rate of one per inning at every stop. Last year he was a little too wild though as his walk rate increased sharply.

    Closers should be:
    Twins- Perkins
    AAA- Tonkin
    AA- Zach Jones (when he comes back), I'd guess Corey Williams until he is healthy. They split time at closer in FM last season before Williams imploded.
    A+- Tyler Jones
    A- Don't know here...Malinowski maybe. Brandon Peterson?

    If they decide that Luke Bard has just lost too much time to injuries to become a starter he might challenge for a back of the bullpen spot as will Chargois if he can ever get healthy.

  16. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Oxtung View Post

    Closers should be:
    Twins- Perkins
    AAA- Tonkin
    AA- Zach Jones (when he comes back), I'd guess Corey Williams until he is healthy. They split time at closer in FM last season before Williams imploded.
    A+- Tyler Jones
    A- Don't know here...Malinowski maybe. Brandon Peterson?
    Two others to consider are:

    Dakota Watts. Finally seemed to put it together last year at AA (although he was a bit old.) 28 games, 36 innings, 31 hits, 31k, 10 walks, 0.74 ERA. I thought he might get an invite to the major league camp this year, but I guess not. Guys w/ 100mph fastballs don't grow on trees. I would think he'll be at AAA and maybe split closer duties with Tonkin.

    Brian Gilbert. Drafted out of college last year, assigned to Etown but was quickly promoted to A- in July last year and dominated. Sort of. 13 games, 17 innings, 12 hits, no walks, 1.04 ERA. But only 7 ks. Pretty small sample size. Does he go back to A- to work on ks or go to A+? Or, Seth interviewed him last month and he indicated that he preferred to close, but I guess some are talking about him starting. Seth has him as a starter. I don't know enough about his stuff to see if he really profiles as a starter. OF course sometimes they have people start just so they get more innings and can work on developing a secondary pitch that they'll need to be a ML reliever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimv2 View Post
    Two others to consider are:

    Dakota Watts. Finally seemed to put it together last year at AA (although he was a bit old.) 28 games, 36 innings, 31 hits, 31k, 10 walks, 0.74 ERA. I thought he might get an invite to the major league camp this year, but I guess not. Guys w/ 100mph fastballs don't grow on trees. I would think he'll be at AAA and maybe split closer duties with Tonkin.

    Brian Gilbert. Drafted out of college last year, assigned to Etown but was quickly promoted to A- in July last year and dominated. Sort of. 13 games, 17 innings, 12 hits, no walks, 1.04 ERA. But only 7 ks. Pretty small sample size. Does he go back to A- to work on ks or go to A+? Or, Seth interviewed him last month and he indicated that he preferred to close, but I guess some are talking about him starting. Seth has him as a starter. I don't know enough about his stuff to see if he really profiles as a starter. OF course sometimes they have people start just so they get more innings and can work on developing a secondary pitch that they'll need to be a ML reliever.
    Yeah I thought about Gilbert and Brandon Bixler as well. It's tough to know yet what either of them are. They were both college guys pitching in a rookie league and then at A-ball. We'll find out more this year.

    Watts is a possibility, though he's already 26. As you said he kind of put things together last year, and even 2012 was good. However it was his 2nd and 3rd seasons pitching in the same league.... Definitely a possibility though.

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    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    I think Gilbert will be in the bullpen. So will Bixler.

    Why do we care so much about the age of relievers? So Watts is 26. If he comes up in July this year, the Twins could control his ages 27-33... what's possibly wrong with that?

  19. #18
    Nothing wrong with that at all. The only question is how much of his success in AA can be attributed to be older, more experienced than most of the hitters, and whther that success will carry over to higher leagues. But hopefully they'll put him in AAA and we'll find out.

    ANd I think--again, Seth, you probably know better than me, that he's fought some injuries and that's one of the reasons he's older.

    I don't know much about Bixler--lefty 16th round pick is about all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs View Post
    I think Gilbert will be in the bullpen. So will Bixler.

    Why do we care so much about the age of relievers? So Watts is 26. If he comes up in July this year, the Twins could control his ages 27-33... what's possibly wrong with that?
    As Jimv2 said, there is no reason his age in itself will prevent Watts from taking a closing role. My point was that at 26 he is physically mature and there is little projection left. He is what he is. Is that enough? I certainly don't know. His stats have been very good the last 2 seasons. We'll have to see as he advances. It would be great if he turned out like Thielbar.

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