Minnesota Twins News & Rumors Forum
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 43

Thread: Need some Pinto advice from the Twins fans

  1. #21
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
    Posts
    3,574
    Like
    198
    Liked 532 Times in 346 Posts
    Blog Entries
    32
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Marginal might be a bit harsh but I think you're overselling Pinto a bit.

    Yeah, his bat looks good... for a catcher. If he can't hack it behind the plate, his bat probably won't be enough to hack it at DH.

    He's a tweener prospect. A great player to have if he can play defense well enough to stick in MLB, not terribly useful if he's not behind the dish.
    Where I differ Brock is that he is not Matthew LeCroy, who just couldn't throw well enough to catch or to use a different position, he is not Brendan Harris or Trevor Plouffe, who just didn't/don't have the tools to be major league shortstops. Pinto has the tools, and a very good work ethic. The rest of his defense can and should develop to be at least acceptable.

  2. #22
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
    Posts
    2,271
    Like
    241
    Liked 461 Times in 290 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Marginal might be a bit harsh but I think you're overselling Pinto a bit.

    Yeah, his bat looks good... for a catcher. If he can't hack it behind the plate, his bat probably won't be enough to hack it at DH.

    He's a tweener prospect. A great player to have if he can play defense well enough to stick in MLB, not terribly useful if he's not behind the dish.
    There's no reason to believe he can't stick at catcher. He might not be All-Star caliber, but solid starter is his floor, barring injury.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  3. #23
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
    Posts
    4,171
    Twitter
    @thrylos98
    Like
    36
    Liked 446 Times in 273 Posts
    Blog Entries
    200
    I have seen Pinto play in multiple games over the last 3-4 years and he has been improving as a catcher on an annual basis, which is what you expect from a catcher. About game calling: the only way for a catcher to improve his game calling skills is to catch veteran pitchers and work with veteran pitching coaches. This does not happen at AAA but in the majors. Pinto is more than adequate defensive catcher. Much better than Doumit was last season. He will be fine as a starter.

  4. #24
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    8,105
    Twitter
    @rocketpig76
    Like
    48
    Liked 1,585 Times in 823 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by Thrylos View Post
    About game calling: the only way for a catcher to improve his game calling skills is to catch veteran pitchers and work with veteran pitching coaches. This does not happen at AAA but in the majors.
    This is why I want to see Pinto on the team out of ST. If his problem is game management, he should be learning that skill from Suzuki, Mauer, and Steinbach. I don't care if he's only playing twice a week, those three could help him tremendously.

  5. #25
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    8,105
    Twitter
    @rocketpig76
    Like
    48
    Liked 1,585 Times in 823 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by stringer bell View Post
    Where I differ Brock is that he is not Matthew LeCroy, who just couldn't throw well enough to catch or to use a different position, he is not Brendan Harris or Trevor Plouffe, who just didn't/don't have the tools to be major league shortstops. Pinto has the tools, and a very good work ethic. The rest of his defense can and should develop to be at least acceptable.
    True, but LeCroy also posted a MiLB OPS close to 100 points higher than Pinto.

  6. #26
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
    Posts
    4,171
    Twitter
    @thrylos98
    Like
    36
    Liked 446 Times in 273 Posts
    Blog Entries
    200
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    True, but LeCroy also posted a MiLB OPS close to 100 points higher than Pinto.
    In Salt Lake City in the PCL vs the IL. If 100 points higher in PCL, advantage Pinto. But Pinto's AAA numbers are extra small sample. Compare their AA numbers.

  7. This user likes Thrylos's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    stringer bell (02-21-2014)

  8. #27
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
    Posts
    3,574
    Like
    198
    Liked 532 Times in 346 Posts
    Blog Entries
    32
    Quote Originally Posted by Thrylos View Post
    In Salt Lake City in the PCL vs the IL. If 100 points higher in PCL, advantage Pinto. But Pinto's AAA numbers are extra small sample. Compare their AA numbers.
    The Twins had a Triple A team in Edmonton and then they had Salt Lake City for a few years. I remember a lot of marginal guys putting up great numbers, then coming to the majors and failing and flailing. It has to be a little bit more apples to apples comparison when comparing AAA stats. And still it is hard to project on stats alone. Chris Colabello being a very obvious example.

  9. #28
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
    Posts
    4,368
    Like
    413
    Liked 810 Times in 510 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Marginal might be a bit harsh but I think you're overselling Pinto a bit.

    Yeah, his bat looks good... for a catcher. If he can't hack it behind the plate, his bat probably won't be enough to hack it at DH.

    He's a tweener prospect. A great player to have if he can play defense well enough to stick in MLB, not terribly useful if he's not behind the dish.
    I don't understand your pessimism on him with this bat. His career minor league OPS is .821 with the last two seasons being well above that number, and he's not been old for his age either. I agree that there is good reason for caution, but this is a guy who could conceivably post plenty of seasons north of .800 OPS in a major league uniform. That type of bat will play at most any positions, even DH.

    He's not a grade A prospect for a lot of reasons, but most orgs would be pretty happy with a guy like this in their system, and he'd be a top 3 prospect in a number of systems.

  10. #29
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
    Posts
    4,822
    Like
    176
    Liked 662 Times in 374 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    There's no reason to believe he can't stick at catcher. He might not be All-Star caliber, but solid starter is his floor, barring injury.
    I think we need more than a month's worth of at-bats before we declare his floor is a solid starter.

  11. #30
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    8,105
    Twitter
    @rocketpig76
    Like
    48
    Liked 1,585 Times in 823 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    I don't understand your pessimism on him with this bat. His career minor league OPS is .821 with the last two seasons being well above that number, and he's not been old for his age either. I agree that there is good reason for caution, but this is a guy who could conceivably post plenty of seasons north of .800 OPS in a major league uniform. That type of bat will play at most any positions, even DH.

    He's not a grade A prospect for a lot of reasons, but most orgs would be pretty happy with a guy like this in their system, and he'd be a top 3 prospect in a number of systems.
    I'm really not that down on him. Tempered expectations would be a better term. I think he'll be a MLB contributor for at least a few years... How effective? Not sure, but he's a solid prospect if he can stay behind the plate.

    And while I think he has a pretty good bat, I'm unconvinced that he can post an OPS north of .800 in MLB. I'd love to be wrong, just a bit skeptical is all.

  12. #31
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    8,105
    Twitter
    @rocketpig76
    Like
    48
    Liked 1,585 Times in 823 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by Thrylos View Post
    In Salt Lake City in the PCL vs the IL. If 100 points higher in PCL, advantage Pinto. But Pinto's AAA numbers are extra small sample. Compare their AA numbers.
    LeCroy raked all the way through the minors. The lowest OPS he posted was .867 in A ball. I'm sure his AAA numbers were inflated by the PCL but he didn't spend his entire MiLB career in AAA.

  13. #32
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
    Posts
    2,271
    Like
    241
    Liked 461 Times in 290 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    LeCroy raked all the way through the minors. The lowest OPS he posted was .867 in A ball. I'm sure his AAA numbers were inflated by the PCL but he didn't spend his entire MiLB career in AAA.
    The problem with LeCroy was not his bat. He was so good, Ryan felt confident in nontendering Ortiz to make room for him at DH. But he was never going to be an MLB catcher. Not only couldn't he throw, he was slow to block pitches and just plain slow overall. Pinto has none of those defensive issues. Though you would never project him as a DH, his defense will allow him to stick at catcher.

    I think we need more than a month's worth of at-bats before we declare his floor is a solid starter.
    That's not based on a September call-up. It's based on his minor league track record.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  14. #33
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    8,105
    Twitter
    @rocketpig76
    Like
    48
    Liked 1,585 Times in 823 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    The problem with LeCroy was not his bat. He was so good, Ryan felt confident in nontendering Ortiz to make room for him at DH. But he was never going to be an MLB catcher. Not only couldn't he throw, he was slow to block pitches and just plain slow overall. Pinto has none of those defensive issues. Though you would never project him as a DH, his defense will allow him to stick at catcher.
    As it turned out, the problem with LeCroy was pretty much everything. He ended his MLB career with an OPS+ of 98.

    Which is kind of my point... LeCroy had a bat that should have played even at DH but it never came together... Banking on Pinto's bat carrying outside of catcher is a bit of a leap of faith.

    Again, not down on Pinto, just tempering expectations a bit.

  15. #34
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
    Posts
    1,954
    Like
    257
    Liked 206 Times in 115 Posts
    Let's hope he doesn't follow Parmalee's path...different players, but similar kind of hope after break out AA/AAA and enormous September.

  16. #35
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
    Posts
    3,314
    Like
    1,300
    Liked 1,279 Times in 740 Posts
    Let's just hope he really doesn't have a "bad back".


    • Rhett Bollinger ‏@RhettBollinger 5m
      Josmil Pinto was held out of action with a stiff back today but Gardenhire said he hopes to have him back tomorrow.

      I would think some stiffness might be expected as he settles in for spring training ..... just don't want this to be hints of things to come.


  17. #36
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
    Posts
    4,822
    Like
    176
    Liked 662 Times in 374 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    That's not based on a September call-up. It's based on his minor league track record.
    That's no more of a guarantee. His floor is still much lower, but he's got a nice ceiling too.

  18. #37
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    264
    Like
    15
    Liked 40 Times in 26 Posts
    "he's not been old for his age"

    Maybe he has some Yogi Berra in him.

    I thought one of the complaints with Pinto is he isn't a particularly good receiver - glove is moving, doesn't make it easy for the umpire, etc. He has room to improve for blocking pitches but he can throw. I would like to see the Suzuki/Pinto "replacing the Chevy with two used cars" platoon.

  19. #38
    PINTO - you are not going to find a better offensive catcher. His defense is much improved. I think he is here for the long haul....but I am a little prejudice - he frequented my dinner table many nights when he played in Elizabethton.

  20. These 2 users like Madre Dos's post and want to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    crarko (02-21-2014), Thrylos (02-21-2014)

  21. #39
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
    Posts
    2,271
    Like
    241
    Liked 461 Times in 290 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    As it turned out, the problem with LeCroy was pretty much everything. He ended his MLB career with an OPS+ of 98.

    Which is kind of my point... LeCroy had a bat that should have played even at DH but it never came together... Banking on Pinto's bat carrying outside of catcher is a bit of a leap of faith.

    Again, not down on Pinto, just tempering expectations a bit.
    I guess my point is they are not very comparable. LeCroy was a hitter who could catch. Pinto is a catcher who can hit. He's just below Butera with the glove. But unlike Butera, he can drive the ball.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  22. #40
    Twins News Team MVP
    Posts
    6,727
    Like
    870
    Liked 847 Times in 543 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    The problem with LeCroy was not his bat. He was so good, Ryan felt confident in nontendering Ortiz to make room for him at DH. But he was never going to be an MLB catcher. Not only couldn't he throw, he was slow to block pitches and just plain slow overall. Pinto has none of those defensive issues. Though you would never project him as a DH, his defense will allow him to stick at catcher.
    That's not based on a September call-up. It's based on his minor league track record.
    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    I guess my point is they are not very comparable. LeCroy was a hitter who could catch. Pinto is a catcher who can hit. He's just below Butera with the glove. But unlike Butera, he can drive the ball.


    Pinto's first 2 years of full-season ball (2010 and 11) were so suspect, that no national or local ranker had him above #38 on the Twins prospect lists-even after his 2012 breakout-- his OPS/wRC+ numbers were no better than mediocre in "10 and '11, even as a Catcher- and his fielding has always been a question mark (although he is certainly better than LeCroix). No question the light switched on at the plate in 2012. While what he's done the last 2 years as a batter are encouraging, he still has a ways to go before he's a certified major league backstop.
    Last edited by jokin; 02-21-2014 at 11:53 PM.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
©2014 TwinsCentric, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Interested in advertising with Twins Daily? Click here.