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Thread: 2014 MLB Draft Thread

  1. #61
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobi0040 View Post
    True, but you don't see young, good SS being shipped off in these deals. Profar for example was un-touchable to the point it was ridiculous. Terry Ryan even said they had to target a pitcher in low A because teams don't trade SP's in the MLB or close to.

    I think you do have to balance BPA with the supply available. Either way, the good news is this draft appears heavy at SP and SS, so we may be able to do both.
    That's why patience is a virtue when trading, something I commend Ryan for having in spades. It's the key trait that Bill Smith completely lacked when moving MLB assets.

    If the deal isn't there, wait it out. Someone will become available at some point.

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  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmb0252 View Post
    Not to be out done by Kiley McDaniel, Mr.Law over at ESPN released his own tiers of the first round prospects today. Let me tell you, while a lot of the names are the same they are not in the same order. McDaniel had 5 tiers Mr.Law leaves it at 4 saying that tier 5 would be too big. (Also, this is insider so I will only post the first two tiers. If you want to know where a specific player lands just ask)....
    Okay, let get this thread back on track. So, cmb2052 where does he have Turner?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    Jason Bartlett says hi. Bad example, but teams do trade shortstops.
    I should have added an asterisk. *trades made by Bill Smith do not count. The guy gave up a good SP and a good SS, the two hardest positions to fill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maxisagod View Post
    Okay, let get this thread back on track. So, cmb2052 where does he have Turner?
    Turner was in tier 3 but he notes that he could be the first position player taken because of his bankable speed. He worries about Turners power and unorthodox swing. He notes that Kennesaw State's Max Pentecost might be the best college position player because he is a true catcher with ability at the plate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tobi0040 View Post
    I should have added an asterisk. *trades made by Bill Smith do not count. The guy gave up a good SP and a good SS, the two hardest positions to fill.
    Just last year the Diamondbacks traded Bauer, who looks likely to bust, for a pretty decent shortstop prospect. Andrus was part of the Teixeira deal a few years back. The Red Sox traded away Hanley Ramirez (and Anibal Sanchez) for Beckett. The Twins could move Sano for most any shortstop in the minors if they wanted to.

  8. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    Just last year the Diamondbacks traded Bauer, who looks likely to bust, for a pretty decent shortstop prospect. Andrus was part of the Teixeira deal a few years back. The Red Sox traded away Hanley Ramirez (and Anibal Sanchez) for Beckett. The Twins could move Sano for most any shortstop in the minors if they wanted to.
    Just another reason trading prospects is sometimes a good idea, no matter how good they look....though if Bauer can get his head on straight, he'll be what we think Gibson could be. But he can't stop trying to tweak things.....like a hack golfer.
    Lighten up Francis....

  9. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    That's why patience is a virtue when trading, something I commend Ryan for having in spades. It's the key trait that Bill Smith completely lacked when moving MLB assets.

    If the deal isn't there, wait it out. Someone will become available at some point.
    That was not true in his first stint. Other than Kielty, he didn't wait teams out, he didn't trade for proven players that were really good.....and we still haven't seen that part change.

    He is trading vets for prospects, still, and signing better pitchers, but (and this is timing of the rebuild probably) we have not seen him trade a prospect for a proven player yet.
    Lighten up Francis....

  10. #68
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    That was not true in his first stint. Other than Kielty, he didn't wait teams out, he didn't trade for proven players that were really good.....and we still haven't seen that part change.

    He is trading vets for prospects, still, and signing better pitchers, but (and this is timing of the rebuild probably) we have not seen him trade a prospect for a proven player yet.
    If you follow my chain of posts, I never talked about trading for MLB players, I was only talking about the inverse; moving established MLB talent for prospects.

    But yeah, Ryan doesn't really trade prospects for MLB talent often.

  11. #69
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    ah, misunderstood, sorry.
    Lighten up Francis....

  12. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    That was not true in his first stint. Other than Kielty, he didn't wait teams out, he didn't trade for proven players that were really good.....and we still haven't seen that part change.

    He is trading vets for prospects, still, and signing better pitchers, but (and this is timing of the rebuild probably) we have not seen him trade a prospect for a proven player yet.
    He also added Luis Castillo for a couple prospects. I'm not as concerned about this as you are. Trading prospects while rebuilding is dicey. Not saying it shouldn't be done but it has to be a pretty good deal. And teams that are trading for prospects (and supplying vets in return) are usually other bad teams that are rebuilding, so there isn't always a good fit. A contending team usually isn't going to give up a good ML player for a prospect while they think they can that ML player can help them now (see Texas last year).

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    Houston has a catcher that would be a good fit......imo. But ya, I think this is a timing issue. And catchers get hurt....
    Lighten up Francis....

  14. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    Just last year the Diamondbacks traded Bauer, who looks likely to bust, for a pretty decent shortstop prospect. Andrus was part of the Teixeira deal a few years back. The Red Sox traded away Hanley Ramirez (and Anibal Sanchez) for Beckett. The Twins could move Sano for most any shortstop in the minors if they wanted to.
    The fact that it has happened before, does not mean they happen a lot. You have cited some pretty extreme cases.

    In the case of the Teixera and Beckett deal, you are talking about franchise caliber players. The Red Sox have at least one fewer WS without Beckett and Lowell. Teixera would be like moving Mauer or Morneau in 2007. Sano is one of the best 10-15 prospects probably in the last 10 years.

  15. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobi0040 View Post
    The fact that it has happened before, does not mean they happen a lot. You have cited some pretty extreme cases.
    I guess I'm not sure what you're getting at. If you want to have talent to trade for talent, you draft the BPA and then you can move him for the shortstop you don't have - like the Twins added three pitchers for Span and Revere. If Jackson turns out to be the BPA at #5 then the Twins should take him and, if he's blocked by Hicks, Buxton, Arcia, Kepler, Walker or whomever, they can make a trade.

    Shortstop prospects are traded all the time. Elite shortstop prospects are rarer trades but that's true because they are elite, not b/c they are shortstops (now, being a shortstop might make a player better in people's eyes simply based on positional scarcity and such - like the Gigi/Bauer trade). If the Twins continue to stockpile talent in the farm system they can make moves to fix areas they are deficient in, if needed.

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  17. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    That's why patience is a virtue when trading, something I commend Ryan for having in spades. It's the key trait that Bill Smith completely lacked when moving MLB assets.

    If the deal isn't there, wait it out. Someone will become available at some point.
    There are a half dozen ne shortstops with star ceilings just entering the league and replacing, in most cases guys who are an upgrade to Florimon. Trade opportunities are likely to improve, perhaps starting at this year's trade deadline.

  18. #75
    Owner All-Star John Bonnes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmb0252 View Post
    Turner was in tier 3 but he notes that he could be the first position player taken because of his bankable speed. He worries about Turners power and unorthodox swing. He notes that Kennesaw State's Max Pentecost might be the best college position player because he is a true catcher with ability at the plate.
    Well, I'm glad to see that at this point, there aren't a Big 4 that the Twins are just going to miss out on. (Though there is plenty of time for that yet, of course.)

    I guess I'm not picky. I'm not opposed to an outfielder if he's clearly better than the other options, but if it's close, a SS or C sure sounds tasty. A college pitcher might serve as a nice bridge to some of the low minor arms we have coming.

    It feels like Day 1 is going to be a good day.

  19. #76
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    Christopher Crawford released an ESPN insider article called Five biggest draft storylines. Here are his 5:

    1.Just how good is Carlos Rodon?
    Is he a better prospect than Strasburg?

    2. Who's number 3?
    Rodon and Hoffman are considered by most the top two prospects in the draft but who is number 3? Kolek? Jackson? Gatewood?

    3. Where are the college bats?
    With more and more elite bats signing out of high school will there ever be a strong college position player draft? He suggests teams might reach and mentions the Twins might go for Turner.

    4. Which prep pitcher might step up?
    From a scout:
    "It's a deep group," an NL East scout said. "You've got guys like Tyler Kolek, who have the imposing size and fastball, but you wonder about the projection and if the secondary offerings are good enough to make him a legit ace. Then you look at a guy like Grant Holmes [Conway, S.C.] who might be the most advanced-arm in the class with three plus pitches, but doesn't have that knockout tool.

    "And then there's the lefties like Justus Sheffield [Tullahoma, Tenn.] and Brady Aiken[San Diego, Calif.] who don't have the stuff of the guys we just talked about, but could be better prospects just because of their feel for pitching and quality secondary stuff."

    5. How good is the state of Florida?
    Names several players who are potential top 25 draft prospects including Nick Gordon and Forrest Wall. Two guys BA had this article about 2 days ago:

    http://www.baseballamerica.com/draft/prime-prospect-pair-forrest-wall-vs-nick-gordon/

    For Crawford's full insider article here is the link:

    http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/mlb-draft/post?id=1269


  20. #77
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    That Crawford article was good. Definitely worth subscribing, imo.
    Lighten up Francis....

  21. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmb0252 View Post
    Turner was in tier 3 but he notes that he could be the first position player taken because of his bankable speed. He worries about Turners power and unorthodox swing. He notes that Kennesaw State's Max Pentecost might be the best college position player because he is a true catcher with ability at the plate.
    No thanks on Pentecost. If your picking a bat at #5, I want the best offensive player period. I don't want a qualifying addendum, i.e. "this guy is a really good hitter considering he's a catcher."

  22. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    That Crawford article was good. Definitely worth subscribing, imo.
    I'm a huge fan of Crawford. I just wish he would write more articles like this for his own site mlbdraftinsider.com.

  23. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    No thanks on Pentecost. If your picking a bat at #5, I want the best offensive player period. I don't want a qualifying addendum, i.e. "this guy is a really good hitter considering he's a catcher."
    I tend to agree with you on Pentecost. While I'm definitely a fan of his I believe a top 5 pick NEEDS to have at least one elite tool IMO.

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