Minnesota Twins News & Rumors Forum
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 29

Thread: Alex Rodriguez Suspension Now 162 Games

  1. #1
    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
    Posts
    6,536
    Twitter
    @sethtweets
    Like
    68
    Liked 380 Times in 201 Posts
    Blog Entries
    515

    Alex Rodriguez Suspension Now 162 Games

    An arbiter ruled today on the Alex Rodriguez case. He will miss the entire 2014 season after being given a 162 game suspension.

    Previously, he had been given a random 211 game suspension. He appealed, and it went to the arbiter.

    Now, A-Rod is likely to appeal this suspension.

    And he should. The Joint Drug Agreement says that a first suspension is to be 50 games for a first failed drug test. Of course, Rodriguez has not failed a drug test since MLB set its rules and procedures for testing. Rodriguez has been suspended, in part, for his associations with Bosch (the Miami guy).

    Ryan Braun accepted a 65 game suspension late in the 2013 season when his Brewer team was already out of contention. He did not appeal for some reason.

    What do you think?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer biggentleben's Avatar
    Posts
    960
    Like
    43
    Liked 69 Times in 49 Posts
    He's entitled to appeal as he really shouldn't be beyond 50 games based on what his own union negotiated. Whether he's guilty or not, that's another thing. I think Braun knew his guilt from his earlier test and took the suspension because of that. Fighting also means this hanging over his head for longer while he appeals, and Braun is someone who comes off VERY concerned about what others think about him...ARod, not so much.
    Staff Writer for Tomahawktake.com, come check it out!

  3. #3
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
    Posts
    2,272
    Like
    241
    Liked 464 Times in 291 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    I think he has failed drug tests. He was on the lists that the Mitchell committee forced the MLB to release, which the MLBPA wanted suppressed.

    In this case, he was pulling a Lance Armstrong: Trying to build a program that uses doping in ways that are largely undetected by the current approved testing procedure. He actively recruited players into the program, similar to what Bonds did with BALCO.

    These are not conjectures. Several players took their 50 game suspensions and gave detailed depositions on how A-Roid was trying to build a side business of undetectable doping, in open defiance of the spirit of the law, if not its letter. After seeing the Armstrong saga play out in all its gory detail, I'm surprised there is not more outrage towards A-Roid. Armstrong's big defense was "I've never failed a drug test." Yeah, but you doped every day for 10 years.

    IMHO, this is the kind of thing that should get him banned for life and stripped of his trophies, as Armstrong was. I don't understand the resistance to anti-doping in Baseball, when every other sport on the planet is more strict towards doping.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  4. #4
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer biggentleben's Avatar
    Posts
    960
    Like
    43
    Liked 69 Times in 49 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    I think he has failed drug tests. He was on the lists that the Mitchell committee forced the MLB to release, which the MLBPA wanted suppressed.

    In this case, he was pulling a Lance Armstrong: Trying to build a program that uses doping in ways that are largely undetected by the current approved testing procedure. He actively recruited players into the program, similar to what Bonds did with BALCO.

    These are not conjectures. Several players took their 50 game suspensions and gave detailed depositions on how A-Roid was trying to build a side business of undetectable doping, in open defiance of the spirit of the law, if not its letter. After seeing the Armstrong saga play out in all its gory detail, I'm surprised there is not more outrage towards A-Roid. Armstrong's big defense was "I've never failed a drug test." Yeah, but you doped every day for 10 years.

    IMHO, this is the kind of thing that should get him banned for life and stripped of his trophies, as Armstrong was. I don't understand the resistance to anti-doping in Baseball, when every other sport on the planet is more strict towards doping.
    I'm not so sure it's anti-doping resistance as much as a requirement for evidence, which has been questionable at best in this case, not to mention the illegal manner that much of the evidence that is present was acquired, which would have it completely thrown out of any legal proceeding. Armstrong had the rumors for years before concrete evidence came forward, and once it did, he was suspended. I'd completely support suspension if similar viable evidence came forward, but that hasn't been the case here so far.

    Don't get me wrong. I am not a fan of ARod and his arrogance in the situation at all, but he deserves every protection of innocence until proven guilty that any of us do.
    Staff Writer for Tomahawktake.com, come check it out!

  5. This user likes biggentleben's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    jm3319 (01-11-2014)

  6. #5
    Senior Member Double-A
    Posts
    140
    Like
    53
    Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by biggentleben View Post
    Don't get me wrong. I am not a fan of ARod and his arrogance in the situation at all, but he deserves every protection of innocence until proven guilty that any of us do.
    I agree 100%. However, this is the land of sports and public opinion where people are guilty until proven innocent, which is a tough spot considering it's practically impossible to prove someone DIDN'T do something.

    As much as everyone knows A-Rod was using steroids, 162 games is still unreasonable based on MLB's own rules, not to mention their lack of any solid evidence.

  7. #6
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
    Posts
    2,272
    Like
    241
    Liked 464 Times in 291 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by jm3319 View Post
    I agree 100%. However, this is the land of sports and public opinion where people are guilty until proven innocent, which is a tough spot considering it's practically impossible to prove someone DIDN'T do something.

    As much as everyone knows A-Rod was using steroids, 162 games is still unreasonable based on MLB's own rules, not to mention their lack of any solid evidence.
    I would not assume they had no solid evidence. Because they were being challenged legally, they could not release the evidence they had. Arbiters are like judges. The parties agree to accept their judgements to avoid court. A-Roid's lawyers accepted arbitration because they didn't like their chances in court. Without solid evidence, this thing would have been thrown out of court on Day 1. Ergo, the MLB had solid evidence.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  8. #7
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    2,298
    Like
    36
    Liked 137 Times in 83 Posts
    The problem here isn't that ARod isn't a pile a crap but rather that the MLB is just making up the law as it goes.

    I think there is enough evidence to issue ARod a 50 game suspension as a first offense w/o a failed drug test but there is nothing that resembles a 162 or 211 game suspension in the CBA. They are of course targeting him due his likely obstruction of the investigation but then directly say that is why he is being suspended.

  9. These 3 users like kab21's post and want to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    biggentleben (01-11-2014), DocBauer (01-11-2014), jm3319 (01-11-2014)

  10. #8
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
    Posts
    3,359
    Like
    1,315
    Liked 1,296 Times in 750 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by biggentleben View Post
    I'm not so sure it's anti-doping resistance as much as a requirement for evidence, which has been questionable at best in this case, not to mention the illegal manner that much of the evidence that is present was acquired, which would have it completely thrown out of any legal proceeding. Armstrong had the rumors for years before concrete evidence came forward, and once it did, he was suspended. I'd completely support suspension if similar viable evidence came forward, but that hasn't been the case here so far.

    Don't get me wrong. I am not a fan of ARod and his arrogance in the situation at all, but he deserves every protection of innocence until proven guilty that any of us do.
    This isn't a criminal proceeding. MLB has no power to put A-Rod in jail. They do have the power to affect his livelihood and legacy but that is the same as in many civil cases.

    To me, the standard would be "preponderance of the evidence" certainly not proof beyond a reasonable doubt. And a neutral arbitrator has now found that A-Rod deserved to be suspended for 162 games.

    Until we have the opportunity to read his full decision (if we ever get that), we don't know what evidence he considered at arriving at his conclusion that a 162 game suspension was warranted.

    But I'd pretty much guess that there had to be something there for him to go beyond the 50 games.

  11. #9
    Senior Member Double-A
    Posts
    178
    Like
    4
    Liked 9 Times in 4 Posts
    Blog Entries
    13
    I think MLB can do what they want, look at the Pete Rose and "Shoeless" Joe Jackson lifetime bans. By limiting it to certain number of games they opened themselves up to A-Roid appealing and whining. Ban him for life and be done with it. If MLB has to also ban Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Palmeiro, etc... then so be it, they shouldn't have cheated.

  12. #10
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
    Posts
    6,608
    Like
    3,682
    Liked 3,170 Times in 1,357 Posts
    On the surface, it would appear MLB isn't following its own collectively bargained rules. Never a good position to try to defend. On the other hand, you're sort of forced to come to the conclusion there had to be lots of evidence for an arbiter to come to this ruling. I don't know what to think, really, other than I doubt this is the last we've heard of this and there are plenty of legal fees yet to be spent I'd bet.

    In the meantime, there appears to be money for the Yankees to spend in 2014. For the time being, anyway.

    What a mess.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

  13. #11
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer biggentleben's Avatar
    Posts
    960
    Like
    43
    Liked 69 Times in 49 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by mnfireman View Post
    I think MLB can do what they want, look at the Pete Rose and "Shoeless" Joe Jackson lifetime bans. By limiting it to certain number of games they opened themselves up to A-Roid appealing and whining. Ban him for life and be done with it. If MLB has to also ban Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Palmeiro, etc... then so be it, they shouldn't have cheated.
    The gambling is part of the CBA, though, and it has always been against the rules for players to do such. This punishment would be outside of the CBA, and that would not hold up legally if it was challenged.
    Staff Writer for Tomahawktake.com, come check it out!

  14. #12
    Senior Member Double-A
    Posts
    140
    Like
    53
    Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by mnfireman View Post
    I think MLB can do what they want, look at the Pete Rose and "Shoeless" Joe Jackson lifetime bans. By limiting it to certain number of games they opened themselves up to A-Roid appealing and whining. Ban him for life and be done with it. If MLB has to also ban Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Palmeiro, etc... then so be it, they shouldn't have cheated.
    How can they ban Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, etc when MLB didn't even test for steroids when they played? I'm not saying they didn't use steroids, of course they did. But the league didn't have any way of testing or policing the game when these players were playing.

  15. #13
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    2,298
    Like
    36
    Liked 137 Times in 83 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by mnfireman View Post
    I think MLB can do what they want, look at the Pete Rose and "Shoeless" Joe Jackson lifetime bans. By limiting it to certain number of games they opened themselves up to A-Roid appealing and whining. Ban him for life and be done with it. If MLB has to also ban Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Palmeiro, etc... then so be it, they shouldn't have cheated.
    The only grounds that the MLB has for a stiffer suspension is that he tampered with their investigation. If they are using this in their argument then they should directly state that. I would be surprised if ARod wasn't involved in some way but they actually need proof if they state it.

    the system is designed so that the arbitrator is neutral but the MLB has already fired one arbitrator that disagreed with their decision. Of course the MLBPA could fire an arbitrator but I can see them letting ARod fry.
    http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...tor-shyam-das/

  16. #14
    Senior Member Triple-A kydoty's Avatar
    Posts
    272
    Like
    2
    Liked 90 Times in 36 Posts
    I think the problem here is that Major League Baseball has ****ed up this whole situation so badly that they're making me pull for A-Rod, and I never ever want to be in favor of anything that is beneficial to A-Rod.

    "Mediocre breaking balls are a gift from God." - Kirby Puckett

  17. These 6 users like kydoty's post and want to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    biggentleben (01-12-2014), Brock Beauchamp (01-12-2014), ericchri (01-13-2014), jm3319 (01-12-2014), kab21 (01-12-2014), USAFChief (01-12-2014)

  18. #15
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
    Posts
    1,955
    Like
    257
    Liked 207 Times in 116 Posts
    This isn't an MLB shill that decided the punishment, it's a goddamn independent arbitrator that gave Arod the season ban. While MLB might be going beyond the terms of latest CoB, clearly such a case deserves individual jurisprudence.

    In Arod's case, there's simply a ponderous of evidence that defies the common rules. It's just ****ing sad. Sad that we lose one of the greatest players of the game to unadulterated egoism, and worse, puts the record book in such unsteady waters.

  19. This user likes PseudoSABR's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    JB_Iowa (01-12-2014)

  20. #16
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
    Posts
    2,272
    Like
    241
    Liked 464 Times in 291 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    I echo Pseudo's sentiments. It's sad that Bonds, Rodriguez, McGuire and Clemons will be in the class with Rose. They all would have been HOF players without the juice. Not sure about Palmeiro. He was a slow slap hitter before the juice. Still, such a bloody waste of talent.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  21. #17
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    204
    Like
    106
    Liked 22 Times in 15 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    The Yankees may have saved a few $$$s in 2014 but are not they still on the books for 3-4 years costing $80 million?

    Hopefully a few more bad contracts and the Yankees will stay out of FA.

  22. #18
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
    Posts
    3,359
    Like
    1,315
    Liked 1,296 Times in 750 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by thetank View Post
    The Yankees may have saved a few $$$s in 2014 but are not they still on the books for 3-4 years costing $80 million?

    Hopefully a few more bad contracts and the Yankees will stay out of FA.
    I'm sure the Yankees are looking for ways to void the contract but we can only hope that they stay on the hook. No one will ever convince me that they weren't complicit in this mess.

  23. #19
    I would suggest that MLB's [Selig's] actions on the Rodriguez case undermine the commissioner's office, the Joint Drug Agreement, and the commissioner's powers under the "best interests of the game" provisions. Rodriquez has not tested positive under any of the agreed-upon JDA procedures, so he's not liable for suspension under the JDA. Apparently Selig and others felt that there was sufficient evidence from other sources to indicate that Rodriguez had in fact used PEDs in violation of the agreement. OK, I get that. However, then imposing a penalty in excess of those spelled out for a positive first or second offense under the JDA makes this look exactly like what Rodriquez has publicly complained about: a personal vendetta. Further, when looked at closely, the only party who benefits from the suspension decision is the New York Yankees, who dodge one full year of their $24 million/year obligation to Rodriguez. As a result, the commissioner's office looks like a toadie to the Yankees, both the arbitration process and the "good of the game" provision become tools to use for whatever private interest the commissioner decides he wishes to serve, and the JDA becomes an apparent joke, it being tacitly admitted that it can't catch abusers, and imposed only upon those who won't stand up to the commissioner.

    A year and a half ago it appeared that MLB had gotten its act together on PED enforcement. Now, it appears that there is no effective due process in place, and the agreement is not worth the paper it's written on. And all of this in the pursuit of Alex Rodriquez who appears to be nearly certainly guilty of PED abuse, and who would probably have accepted a 100-game, second-time penalty had the commissioner's office not overreached themselves.

  24. #20
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    271
    Like
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    I'm surprised no one has commented on the 60 Minutes segment last night. I thought it was interesting, but I don't think CBS dug very deep. It had the feeling of Bud Selig calling someone high up at CBS and saying, "Would you like a juicy story to expose Arod? The only catch is you cannot make MLB look bad". I'm kind of surprised that MLB didn't have 60 Minutes edit out the part where Bosch insinuated that all the players are doping.


    CMathewson, you mentioned that MLB's testing is way behind other sports, but I would argue that compared to the NFL and college football it is more strict. I think some NFL type fans that sort of follow baseball wish that baseball would just let the whole PED thing slide and go back to the "Glory Days" of 98 with Bonds, Sosa, and McGwire.



    I agree that it the Yankees, Selig, and Bosch are the only ones that benefit from this mess.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
©2014 TwinsCentric, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Interested in advertising with Twins Daily? Click here.