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Thread: BA: Radcliff on Engelb Vielma

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    OK, well, the context was enhanced when Law made his ridiculous ranking, in part based on Radcliff's comments. So I think it's fair game to point out his past blunders. Nishioka is just the worst, but by no means the only one of his blunders. Taken for all and all, his draft record was pretty bad.

    1. Jason Veritek
    2. Dan Sarafini
    3. Jesse Fillgrove
    4. Marc Barcello
    5. Kelcey Mucker
    6. Travis Miller
    7. Travis Lee
    8. Ryan Mills
    9. BJ Garbe
    10. Adam Johnson
    11. Aaron Heilman
    12. Matt Moses
    13. Steve Waldrop
    14. Jay Rainville
    15. Henry Sanchez
    16. Carlos Guitierrez
    17. Shooter Hunt

    Those are just the first rounders or sandwich picks who were drafted by Radcliff and who didn't succeed with the Twins. Johnson, Miller and Waldrop were the only ones to actually make it to the majors with the Twins, and none produced first round talent. Seventeen players in 15 years drafted in the first or sandwich rounds never made a difference with the team. Pathetic.

    That doesn't count other poor drafts, like 2006, which produced very little major league talent. Or 2007, in which he basically drafted three rounds lower than he could have to save the team money.

    He is a Peter Principle poster child. In just about any other market, he would have been run out of town. Here, he was promoted. The best thing that happened to the franchise was when he was promoted into a role that has little influence and they put Johnson in charge of the draft. Since then, the system has gone from worst to first.

    So, no, I don't take what says Radcliff did seriously. And I think much less of Law for doing so.
    There's a lot wrong with this post including the fact that Radcliff wasn't in charge of the draft for some of these guys or taking into account payroll issues the Pohlad family put on the FO. If you look at the WAR of Radcliff's picks over time, the Twins have drafted pretty well while he was running the draft.

  2. #22
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    [QUOTE=cmathewson;194107]OK, well, the context was enhanced when Law made his ridiculous ranking, in part based on Radcliff's comments. So I think it's fair game to point out his past blunders. Nishioka is just the worst, but by no means the only one of his blunders. Taken for all and all, his draft record was pretty bad.

    You know, cmath, I wouldn't be qualified to argue about his skills in this area, let alone the skills of the others involved in these selections. That's why I limited my observations to his COMMENTS. Law used his comment in a write-up, which hardly lets one draw a conclusion about how much reliance there was on it. On the surface, Vielma looks like a goofy and uninformed pick, but it wouldn't have been Radcliffe's fault if it was based on his comment, and it isn't Radcliffe's ranking. It was a friggin' comment. It should remain in the context of what it is.

    But I will say that you're being pretty harsh and a little unfair. You're ignoring any successes. You provide no comparative context, so it's left to our imaginations to determine if this is simply pathetic, or more pathetic than average, or maybe even less pathetic than average (and please, no need for anyone to compare how well someone drafting the #2 guy did compared to Matt Moses). Lastly, without at least a slightly charitable admission that others were involved, that budgets played a role, and that the draft order was more often than not less favorable, that perhaps injuries and luck are a factor...

    You might be absolutely correct in your assessment of Radcliffe, though.

  3. #23
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    There's a lot wrong with this post including the fact that Radcliff wasn't in charge of the draft for some of these guys or taking into account payroll issues the Pohlad family put on the FO. If you look at the WAR of Radcliff's picks over time, the Twins have drafted pretty well while he was running the draft.
    You're right about when he started running the draft, in '94. So the first five guys on that list belong to Ryan, who ran the draft for MacPhail. But taking those years out, he still did a pretty poor job with the draft, with a few notable exceptions. The stretch from 96-2000, when he never drafted lower than 9th overall and just produced Cuddyer and LeCroy, was pretty poor.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

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  5. #24
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    The thing lacking from this organisation...accountability

  6. #25
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnydakota View Post
    The thing lacking from this organisation... accountability
    Moderator's note: and with this, it's about time to ask yet again that the tangents be left aside. This thread was about Engelb Vielma (who I thought at first to be somebody's humorous anagram but apparently not).

    It is not necessary for multiple people to inject a sequence of escalating critiques, culminating in one of the entire organization, into every thread. The TD Comment Policy is clear about this form of trolling; the moderators try to be lenient, and all that results is further escalation by one individual after another.

    Start a new thread, if any of you feel so moved, on your pet topic(s). Free and open discussion is good; the "same old same old", not so much.

    And I must add: this doesn't apply to every post in the thread. Some of the comments, as they pertained to the player, were quite interesting.
    Last edited by ashburyjohn; 01-31-2014 at 06:41 PM.

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  8. #26
    Senior Member Triple-A maxisagod's Avatar
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    I think the most important takeaway of what Law said/ranked and what Radcliff said isn't Radcliff talent appraising ability, but that fact it's clean that people with SAY in the organization think Vielma is someone to watch, which means they're watching him. He's not just organization filler, he a prospect who down the road may fill a need on the big league club, even if it's an Escobar like capacity. It kinda like Stuart Turner getting a camp invite, sure Turner has document ability and success in college, but when your employer has tag you as a fast mover, as long as you meet their expectations, your going to move fast.

    From a fans perspective Vielma is someone to watch and if he does well he's someone people can safely
    emotionally invest in.

  9. #27
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer gil4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    ...(who I thought at first to be somebody's humorous anagram but apparently not).
    I thought it was some new form of pig Latin, but I was wrong too.

  10. #28
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    Moderator's note: and with this, it's about time to ask yet again that the tangents be left aside. This thread was about Engelb Vielma
    I beg to differ. Please look at the title again. The thread was about Radcliff's comments about Vielma, not about Vielma in a vaccum. So I would suspect that researching and discussing Radcliff's past decisions and comments about other players, IMHO, would be central to this and not a tangent.

    It is like saying that Fangraphs picks the Twins to lose 90+ games in 2014 and thinking that past Fangraphs guestimates about how the Twins would do are tangential. Sorry, but they are not.


    Vile men bagel (anagram)
    Last edited by Thrylos; 02-01-2014 at 06:27 PM.
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    twitter: @thrylos98

  11. #29
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    For the record, I only posted because I thought it was an interesting note on a prospect that most people have never heard of, not because I wanted to discuss the tenure of Radcliff or make anagrams, but it's a forum so it'll go where it goes.

    live gene balm

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  13. #30
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    I've never heard of him either. I also don't have a subscription to BA so all I see after clicking on OP is

    MINNESOTA—It was only a Rookie-level Gulf Coast League game, played on a back field at the Twins complex with perhaps a couple of dozen sun worshipers in attendance. But that [...]
    So in lieu of a comment on Vielma or Radcliffe, here goes another anagram

    lev be mealing

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  15. #31
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer jay's Avatar
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    I'm bevel angle?

  16. #32
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    Leave Me Bling.

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  18. #33
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    Leave Me Bling.
    Dang it, you win.

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