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Thread: Article: A Snapshot of Twins Payroll

  1. #101
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnydakota View Post
    Florida Marlins , Prince fielder...Yes you are correct about maybe a player gets hurt, or maybe he doesnt play as well as you hoped, but if you sit at home with your tinfoil hat on, afraid to make a mistake, you will miss out on many oppertunities.
    It's not about being afraid to make a mistake, it's about taking on unnecessary risks that involve too many variables to predict an outcome with any kind of accuracy.

    The Florida Marlins don't intentionally sign FAs to trade them, they have one of the worst owners in sports who liquidates his team whenever he fears his profits might dip below an acceptable level. Big difference there. The Marlins don't use FA trades to build their team, they fire sale players.

    As for Fielder, that was a rare move that involved a ton of moving pieces. Like I said:

    There's a reason why no team uses this strategy consistently. There's a big difference between "this never happens" versus "no one uses this strategy on a regular basis".

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    I'm good with your other posts, but this one sounds like an appeal to authority, basically saying don't bother commenting here. but maybe I am reading that wrong.
    Not an appeal to authority at all, but an appeal to expertise. If I decided to critique owners, coaches or players on here, I'd expect to be asked to back up my claims. I'd expect to get some pushback. You know yourself, mike, that you are usually negatively critical, and that's great. Sometimes you're right. In my view, you're often wrong or over the top in how harsh you are with the criticism. It's healthy when criticism, positive or negative, is the subject of some friendly debate. Our first debates, I recall, were about two years ago when I commented on the positive critiques on what was happening in the farm system and pushed you about your views, which were extremely negative. I guess I reply to your posts more often than others because, to be honest, I simply disagree with your take so often. No offense intended whatsoever.

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  4. #103
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    [QUOTE=twinsnorth49;192304]Just because someone is not employed by a major league baseball team, does not mean they don't know what they are talking about. There are plenty of knowledgeable, thoughtful and intelligent posters here. I think a lot of them know a great deal of what they are talking about.

    Of course there are many intelligent, thoughtful, and knowledgable posters on here! Why else would we bother to come here? I respect mike wants wins, for example, because we share those attributes. But don't confuse things. Don't confuse decisions, for example, from knowledge.

    What I will say is this: if you, me, or anyone else here thinks we have a better read on whether a player like Sano or Buxton are MLB ready than the dozens of evaluators employed by the Twins, we are utter fools. Rightfully questioning is not what I reacted to.

  5. #104
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    I do agree with the birdwatcher, we have waaaaaaaaaaaaaay less information, and experience, than the professionals. I think I just misunderstood his/her post.

    One reasons I wanted to go to the event on saturday was to meet people in person, so they (and I) would be able get a better feel for each other as people, not as posters.....since I think context is very important to relationships....
    Lighten up Francis....

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  7. #105
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    I'll be at the Diamond Awards tonight with all my besties like Jimmy P.

  8. #106
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    So if we had shelled out 13 million a year more could we have had Garza?

  9. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnydakota View Post
    So if we had shelled out 13 million a year more could we have had Garza?
    Who's your nsource, johnny?

  10. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by birdwatcher View Post
    Who's your nsource, johnny?
    Well its what the brewers paid...why not us?even if we front loaded it .
    say 25 million in 2014 and 9 million per, for the last 3years

    as for my source is none , but if the Brewers could sign him , why cant we?
    Last edited by johnnydakota; 01-23-2014 at 02:03 PM.

  11. #109
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnydakota View Post
    Well its what the brewers paid...why not us?even if we front loaded it .
    say 25 million in 2014 and 9 million per, for the last 3years

    as for my source is none , but if the Brewers could sign him , why cant we?
    While I believe that most players follow dollars and years, assuming that a single player will go anywhere based solely on money is a mistake. For all we know, Matt Garza has a Ron Gardenhire dartboard. He might not like the fact that the 35 has both a W and E version. Last time he went to Matt's Bar, there may have been a hair in his burger. He might think Minnie and Paul's handshaking relationship is a little too effeminate for his conservative viewpoint.

    In short, we just don't know. A player's decision could literally be based on anything.

  12. #110
    Super Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Last time he went to Matt's Bar, there may have been a hair in his burger.
    Hold on, I thought that was the secret ingredient?

  13. #111
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    The only "snapshot of the Twins payroll" that matters is the Pohlads have been bank-rolling millions and millions of $$$ since the Hennepin County Taxpayer funded a stadium for them. I "really liked" the complaint of "we need a new Stadium so we can spend money on the team". The Pohlads have been and will continue "laughing all the way to the bank" since the taxpayer built them a stadium. The Pohlads are shrewd businessmen, do you think they are going to spend money on a baseball team, when the income streams have already been established?

  14. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    While I believe that most players follow dollars and years, assuming that a single player will go anywhere based solely on money is a mistake. For all we know, Matt Garza has a Ron Gardenhire dartboard. He might not like the fact that the 35 has both a W and E version. Last time he went to Matt's Bar, there may have been a hair in his burger. He might think Minnie and Paul's handshaking relationship is a little too effeminate for his conservative viewpoint.

    In short, we just don't know. A player's decision could literally be based on anything.
    Yes and his early off season remarks about being more then willing to return to Minnesota , could simply have been a ruese to build more bidding , but I will take the player at his word, and believe that if the Twins were competitive or had given him a better deal , he would of happily returned to the Twins

  15. #113
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnydakota View Post
    Yes and his early off season remarks about being more then willing to return to Minnesota , could simply have been a ruese to build more bidding , but I will take the player at his word, and believe that if the Twins were competitive or had given him a better deal , he would of happily returned to the Twins
    And that's possible. My point is that complaining about not acquiring players individually ignores that we just don't know what goes on behind closed doors. That's why I tend to look at offseasons as a big picture. I didn't care if the Twins picked up Nolasco, Hughes, Garza, Jimenez, or Santana. I don't know which ones were willing to come to Minnesota for what price. The Twins needed better pitchers and Ryan acquired two decent arms. I'm cool with that.

    The same thinking applied to last offseason and Ryan failed to acquire good pitching. I didn't care who he got but they needed to be better than Pelfrey (Corriea actually turned out okay). Either way, Ryan failed to meet expectations last offseason and succeeded this offseason. The names don't matter that much to me. Sure, I prefer some players over others but since I'm not there for negotiations, I won't howl if things don't go exactly how I like.

  16. #114
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rico7961 View Post
    the Hennepin County Taxpayer funded a stadium for them.
    This is so darn inaccurate and I hear it all the time and I don't know if it is confusion or something else.

    Here is how Target Field was funded: 1/3 was paid by the Twins and 2/3 are paid by bonds financed by a 0.15% increase in the sales tax at Hennepin county. People's local & property taxes did not increase. People buying taxable stuff (ie not clothes and food and necessities) in Hennepin county, including Twins' tickets and concessions are paying more, regardless whether they live in Minneapolis, St Paul, Duluth, or Timbuktu. And since most of the shopping centers are out of Hennepin county, most of the Hennepin country residents are not affected. The ones who pay more of the bill are the out of towners who have to use hotels and restaurants etc.
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  18. #115
    Super Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrylos View Post
    This is so darn inaccurate and I hear it all the time and I don't know if it is confusion or something else.

    Here is how Target Field was funded: 1/3 was paid by the Twins and 2/3 are paid by bonds financed by a 0.15% increase in the sales tax at Hennepin county. People's local & property taxes did not increase. People buying taxable stuff (ie not clothes and food and necessities) in Hennepin county, including Twins' tickets and concessions are paying more, regardless whether they live in Minneapolis, St Paul, Duluth, or Timbuktu. And since most of the shopping centers are out of Hennepin county, most of the Hennepin country residents are not affected. The ones who pay more of the bill are the out of towners who have to use hotels and restaurants etc.
    I'm outraged......

  19. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrylos View Post
    This is so darn inaccurate and I hear it all the time and I don't know if it is confusion or something else.

    Here is how Target Field was funded: 1/3 was paid by the Twins and 2/3 are paid by bonds financed by a 0.15% increase in the sales tax at Hennepin county. People's local & property taxes did not increase. People buying taxable stuff (ie not clothes and food and necessities) in Hennepin county, including Twins' tickets and concessions are paying more, regardless whether they live in Minneapolis, St Paul, Duluth, or Timbuktu. And since most of the shopping centers are out of Hennepin county, most of the Hennepin country residents are not affected. The ones who pay more of the bill are the out of towners who have to use hotels and restaurants etc.

    That simply is not true, according to economic studies. MOST of the taxes are paid by county residents. The Twins and legislators want you to believe otherwise, but it simply is not true.
    Lighten up Francis....

  20. #117
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer crarko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    That simply is not true, according to economic studies. MOST of the taxes are paid by county residents. The Twins and legislators want you to believe otherwise, but it simply is not true.
    I live across the river in walking distance to the hole in the ground formerly known as the Metrodome. My property taxes have decreased steadily over the past five years or so. Go figure.

  21. #118
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    That simply is not true, according to economic studies. MOST of the taxes are paid by county residents. The Twins and legislators want you to believe otherwise, but it simply is not true.
    Reference, please. Like they are asking for zip codes when they are ringing sales?

    Not to be confused with public stadium financing through bonds backed by real estate tax raised funds, like other cases. Target Field is not financed that way...
    Last edited by Thrylos; 01-23-2014 at 08:04 PM.
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  22. #119
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer crarko's Avatar
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    There's also this : http://www.theinterchange.net

  23. #120
    Super Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    What happens if you run out of bullets? What happens if the Twins need a left fielder and shortstop in 2015 but only have $14m to spend? You're not going to fill all those holes, particularly if the holes are unexpected (say, if Arcia gets injured or falls on his face in 2014).

    They might run out of bullets, that's a legitimate concern.

    Conversely, saving your bullets doesn't guarantee there'll be anything to shoot at later. Needing a shortstop and left fielder in 2015 doesn't mean they will be there to sign. You might have saved your money for nothing, and end up without a SS and left fielder in both years.

    Both approaches have risks.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

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