Row Labels Sum of IP Average of ERA Average of FIP Average of xFIP Average of WAR Marcum,Dempster,Saunders,Jackson 607.30 5.03 4.21 4.13 1.28 Albers,Walters,Gibson,Hendriks,Hernandez,Worley,De Vries 316.60 6.89 5.59 5.05 -0.01
Or 7.66 x Kirbys annual amount....ok Now riddle me this, how much have ticket prices increased since then? How much has revenue increased? How many more avenues of revenue werent avalible back then?
The main difference between this year and last year is the depth of the free agent pitching pool. Because the class had few quality arms beyond the top two, the whole class was overvalued, by the rule of supply and demand. So lots of guys got a lot more money than they deserved, and the Twins should be credited for not going after them.
At the time, Ryan was quoted as saying he thought the class was "thin", and he did not want to spend money unwisely just for the sake of spending money. It turns out he was right about this, and you can hardly argue that the FA class heading into 2013 was much better than he said it was at the time based on the stats they put up.
Since this is the 46th thread about how cheap Ryan was last year, I assume I am missing something. Please enlighten me.
Actually, he was right for one year....what if Marcum is healthy this year, and good? Will you all come on and say he was wrong?
And, man, this went off topic to the same old arguments fast....it had the chance to be a fun thread.
I like these kinds of discussion. One of the problems I've had with criticism of the Front Office is the assumption that we are all working from the same data. While data is already finite, each of our access to that data is even more limited. Simply put, the Twins FO has more data to work with than we do. From medical reports to their own scouting reports to pay-for-data services, there's so much more information available to the Twins to make discerning moves (whether they discern appropriately, well, that's up for debate, and such judgments usually come with only hindsight).
To answer the question of why not spend last year, I think is two fold, and John approached these. 1) the Twins didn't like the pitchers available last year at the prices the market set 2) it was one more year removed from what help would come from the minors. To answer the question of why spend this year: 1) we were unthinkably awful again last year 2) our young talent on the ML roster fell flat on their face 3) the minor league system looks like it might produce impact players sooner than expected. In both these instances, I think the budget played a limited role in their thinking.
I tried to show this before last offseason started, by comparing it to the previous five years, using the dollars likely to be thrown at them (and still underthrew the mark on those dollars considerably). But I suppose one could say that the dollars show how thin it was, though I would disagree.
I wonder how we could do that. Maybe compare some basic metrics from teh year before for each pitcher?
When it comes to looking at the Twins, looking for the truth is filtered by the observer bias.
I think Fans were looking for even better signings than four listed above. Like Sanchez, Santanna, kuroda, and Brandon McCarthy ( not that good last year but still better than Twins pitching). If the Twins had invested in top of tier free agency pitching Say grienke and Sanchez the cost per year would have been 40 million per year seeming a lot of money but look we already have invested this year 20 million so far this year and if we add another free agent will put us close to 30 million. But these two pitchers would have provided us top number 1 and 2 pitcher for several years to come. If we go through another round of inflation on pitching it probably mean cost of these pitchers will start to look like a bargain. Both young pitchers that would be going through prime of pitching years. Also we wouldn't have given up any prospects to acquire this pitching. If figures were correct this would have put the Twins at little over 100 million with 30 million left to fill in other needs and Twins would have been competitive in this division. Also these contracts would be expiring at time some of better prospects would begin to start to cost us money. This still doesn't mean we couldn't trade these players down road for other prospects or needs in players. Tell me what the Attendance would have been with winning team this past year and also added tv revenue that would have come from being playoff team. Subtract that from their salaries and tell me what the excitement level would be around the Twins organization would be. How many season tickets would be sold, club uniforms and etc., and also tv revenue. Tell me how excited fan base would be with all prospects coming and team already able to compete.
This is what Seattle is trying to do jump start their franchise and they are paying much more premium to do this with 10 year contracts instead of 6 year contract and 5 year contract. I think Twins are going to get their now but its much more difficult road they are traveling maybe little less risky. The Twins are not bottom small market team they are middle to upper middle revenue team if they get good product on the field. They have potential to draw substantially over 3 million,they have large fan base in the Midwest and spread over US, and this would also relate to Tv viewership and merchandise etc. Also this fan base is loyal and follows the Twins willing to travel hundreds of miles to watch them if they have good product to watch. The Twins are unique market in baseball their much more a regional team than most of other teams in baseball a smaller version of Red Sox. If you look at Tv market they have Twin Cities plus tv markets in North Dakota, South Dakota, large part of Iowa, parts of Montanna, as well as greater Minnesota. They also draw Canadians that like to watch MLB especially when Toronto is playing because its closest drive for many western Canadians to watch baseball. I think press in Twins Cities doesn't realize and many Twin City residents that the Twins draw is much larger than Metro area and this why it always amazes marketing people that Twin Cities can support four Pro teams to extent they do its because they are regional draw for pro sports. So much said of this The Twins have money if they so choose to spend it and develop a contending team. I think Twins if they invested so much back like they talked to into team from revenue could be a contending team year in year out if continued to develop players and uses FA to fill in gaps when they are unable to develop right kind of player.
The Twins have an extra $25 million for 2014 thanks to the new national TV deals MLB negotiated. Since that more than covers the per annum expense of Nolasco and Hughes, you can't say the Twins are digging deep in their pockets to make these acquisitions - so, no, I don't think their philosophy is changing. The just happened to be walking by the liquor store and found a $20 on the sidewalk.
Sorry I'm A big Zen Fan. Great book I reread it every year. It really helps my teaching.
The Twins needed to change. They are changing.....
The 7.66X was offered only to put the deal in relative terms. Obviously, ticket prices have gone up since 1989. Have they gone up enough that Mauer’s contracts is less of a financial burden? I doubt it. I could not find the average ticket price in 1989 but the average ticket price was 31.49 when Target field opened. In relative terms the average ticket price would have had to have been less than $4.11 to explain an increased capacity to spend. (31.49/7.66=$4.11.) I would guess the average ticket price has gone up by 3-4X.
Joe Mauers contract , was not Just about production..It is about being a home town hero.
While I thought it was a bit long. We can see the team has recouped the value of his contract.
The Twins now have a big payday in MLB-tv revenue, which they didnt have in 89, also this year a 30+ million bump from the all star game, My point was as contracts go up so do revenue, since selig took over revenue has gone up over 600% while players salaries have gone up 435%