Edit: also, the major league numbers are a pretty small sample. The minor league numbers, I certainly wouldn't say Gregorius is showing he's necessarily a "massive upgrade"
I think maybe my posting of the stats was misinterpreted. I'm not disputing that Gregorius is the better/higher upside player. I'm just saying, trading a potentially decent offensive catcher for another SS with a crappy bat doesn't seem like much of a net positive when you look at their numbers, and then you consider all of Pinto's ABs would now be going to Herrmann, Fryer, and Suzuki.
Part of the question also depends heavily on what you think are realistic expectations for Pinto moving forward. I'm sure if you think last year was a fluke for him, then these trades probably sound great. If you think he can put up similar numbers as last year, probably sounds awful. If you're somewhere in the middle, like me, then probably just depends which way you're leaning.
Suzuki is worse than Floriman.....and he'd be your starter, followed by Fryer.
new SS and those catchers?
floriman and Pinto?
Another way you have to look at it: We've been SPOILED ROTTEN with who our catcher has been the past decade basically. Most of that time we've had a great 1-2 with Morneau mashing HR's. Now our offensive star catcher is moving to 1B without as much firepower. We are in an offensive deficit compared to even last year. If Pinto shows up and holds his own in the majors, we're still not back to even. Keep our Catchers.
This would be trading from a position of weakness to fill a position of weakness. We really aren't good partners here.
And I actually would greatly prefer Gregorius over Florimon, but the logic of trading away the "possible answer" for one of the Twins positional black holes for another of the black holes escapes me completely.
If the D-Backs are really willing to make this deal, it means they must regard the trade for Gregorius in the first place as an overall failure- let alone to somehow assume that he be regarded as somehow, "elite". (They traded away a BA #9 Starting Pitching prospect to Cleveland in a 3-way deal). By signing Drew and giving up nothing except a 2nd Rd. pick, it gives the Twins the chance to buy ample time to see if one of their prospects is going to be the long-term answer, or if they need to seek another major league option somewhere farther down the road. If they do find the right candidate, Drew would then make an excellent 2B option as he approaches 35- to the Twins or someone else.
Regardless, I honestly don't think we even know how the FO will spend when this team enters its window of contention. Suppressing payroll in the rebuilding process is hardly proof that TR/the Pohlads will be gun-shy when this team starts its run.
EDIT: ah, my apologies, I had run across an article that suggested Tulo would be an acquisition target, not a potential FA signing. My apologies for my own general buffoonery.
FWIW, the Yanks definitely don't have the pieces to acquire Tulo. We might... whether we should or not is an entirely different question.
Drew hasn't his above .253 since 2010. If he was anything but a shortstop, nobody would be petitioning so vociferously to sign him.
I still think Florimon's defense will offset any improvements Drew might provide offensively.
A lot of the posters on various Twins' subjects seem to automatically assume the Twins will make their "run". Granted there is a lot of young talent coming along now but that does not necessarily translate into a decent "run". What the rest of the division does plays huge in that in my mind.
Batting average absolutely is the most overrated stat. I remember a few years ago Cuddyer said as much. I took it as a shot at Mauer. He liked to take subtle shots at Mauer from time to time. There was another time Cuddy got HBP square in the hand and was back in the lineup the next day. Mauer was out at the time nursing a hangnail and Cuddy took another subtle shot at him and later apologized to Mauer. Good ole Cuddyer loved to stir things up!
There's no reason to panic.
If Pinto is going to be a good MLB hitter and hold his own defensively, then we might as well keep him and offer contracts to FA SS's next off season or until someone signs. JJ Hardy is going to be a free agent next off season and there will also be other options over the next couple of years. There will also be other trade options as well.
Most of the young guys are still in the minors and / or still trying to establish themselves as MLB players. There's plenty of time to get a SS, if and when the Twins are ready to move on from Florimon.
I don't get this. You don't create one hole to fill another. Pinto is the future. There's no one else in the pipeline.