02-02-2013, 01:55 PM #1
Catching and pitch framing
This is an excellent segment on MLB's Clubhouse Confidential that examines both the statistical side of the value of pitch framing (with Baseball Prospectus's Ben Lindbergh) and the practice of pitch framing (with former MLB catcher Dave Valle).
Watch this when you get the opportunity.@OverTheBaggy
02-02-2013, 09:12 PM #2
50 runs. I still have a hard time believing it. Molina only caught 100 games last season. That's half a run a game through framing. More reasonable than some of the numbers we've seen in the past but damn, that's still a huge portion of runs allowed (somewhere around 8% of all of Tampa Bay's runs allowed, despite Molina only catching 60% of their games).
It's a tough stat to swallow and I'm incredibly skeptical that a catcher can have that large an impact through one facet of their game. But I love the fact that people are working so hard on refining the metric.
02-02-2013, 09:17 PM #3
I remember when I played, just up through high school, pretty often an umpire would come to the benches before games and tell us "go up there ready to swing." If MLB umpires are the same way, then they want to call strikes and move the game along. They don't want to debate balls and strikes with people at the plate. Giving the ump a clear angle and sitting still, as Valle describes, gives him the best opportunity to justify and defend his strike calls, I think.
02-02-2013, 09:44 PM #4
Interesting stuff but it makes about zero sense
This argument misses one single really important reality: When the HP ump is crouched behind the catcher, he just sees the trajectory of the ball and he is totally blocked seeing the catcher's mitt. So he really calls balls and strikes based on events that happen before the ball hits the catcher's mitt. So this whole argument is kinda BS.
Catcher might be framing a pitch for the CF camera, but it is not the CF camera that calls balls and strikes
Last edited by thrylos98; 02-02-2013 at 09:48 PM.-----
Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
02-02-2013, 10:07 PM #5
Should umpires be paying attention to the pitch f/x data?
How are they made aware individually or as a group where they are missing calls? What work do they do towards improving at their craft?
02-02-2013, 10:21 PM #6
02-02-2013, 10:24 PM #7
02-02-2013, 10:39 PM #8
If that increase in strikeout rate actually correlates with the pitch framing, then I could see the 50 runs saved.
02-02-2013, 10:43 PM #9
02-02-2013, 10:45 PM #10
02-03-2013, 01:37 AM #11
Tampa Bay was the team talked about. The improve total strikeouts could be that Matt More was better at striking out batters than Wade Davis in a starting role. Price, Shields and Hellickson were all just a little better. You could say they are young pitchers getting smarter, better reputation. Wade Davis as a relieve threw the ball harder than he did as a starter thus getting more stikeouts than what replaced in the bullpen,
02-03-2013, 02:48 PM #12
Watching some baseball this winter. Here's a nice Mauer frame job from last May 27 for Strike 3. Walters pitching
edit: Pitchf/x says this one was 1.211 feet from the center
Last edited by Willihammer; 02-03-2013 at 03:14 PM.
02-03-2013, 03:09 PM #13
Here's another one from the 4th inning, same game. 1-0 pitch to Alex Avila for strike 1. According to pitchf/x, this crissed the plate at -1.173 feet from the center of the plate.
Here's the scatterplot for the game. You can see where the two pitches above stick out on either side.
Last edited by Willihammer; 02-03-2013 at 03:15 PM.
02-03-2013, 03:38 PM #14
While I'm at it. One more pretty nice frame for strike 3 in the 5th inning. Batter is Boesch, 2-2 pitch with the bases loaded. It's the 6th pitch of the at-bat, right on the line at .79 feet from center, Mauer gets the call. Walters 6th and final strikeout looking for the game.
02-03-2013, 03:55 PM #15
02-03-2013, 04:53 PM #16
I hope this thread will eventually have a GIF of every pitch from the upcoming season so we can really evaluate the framing of pitches.
02-03-2013, 05:21 PM #17
With that said, I'll freely admit that I've often wondered how some of the MLB umpires I've seen can see the low outside pitch - there are umpires who appear to be hiding behind the catcher more than they are getting themselves in position to see the ball all the way in. I can even understand why - take a few foul tips off a 96 mph fastball & "not getting hit" can move up on the priority list.
But here's where I think "framing" is an issue. When the catcher moves, he distracts - sometimes his movement blocks the umpire's vision (one of the concerns about Joe Mauer when he started was how big he was, that he'd often block the umpire's vision). There's another point in there - the less the catcher moves around to catch pitches, the more "command" the pitcher appears to have. Umpires are more likely to call strikes for pitchers who hit their target - even when the target is off the plate.
02-03-2013, 05:39 PM #18
02-03-2013, 06:45 PM #19
If the number of stikeouts improved with the catcher then why the increase from 1141 strikeouts in 2008to 1260 in 2009 for the Yanks? Molina caught 50 less games in 2009. I am too lazy to bother figuring out how many strikeouts turns into 50 less runs, but it would take a quite a few. Yet with Posada, a bad framing catcher in a different baseball prospectus article back catching, strikeouts went up. go figure
02-03-2013, 11:59 PM #20
I was hoping that one of the supporters of pitch framing would have answered my question. How many strikeouts does it take to save a run?