Thread: Giolito re injures elbow

Nats first rounder, and possibly the highest upside pitcher in the last draft, re injured his elbow. Good thing he took the 3m when he had the chance.

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2012/...-injures-elbow

This outcome was predictable, but with his upside this was still not a bad pick by the Nats. If he does need TJ sugery, he'll get it soon and be ready to pitch a little by late next season. Pitch in the AFL next fall and be on the minor league track by 2014.

I am glad that this is not the Twins' problem!

Originally Posted by glunn

I am glad that this is not the Twins' problem!

Can't you imagine all the complaints that would be happening on TD if the Twins had drafted him?

That really is too bad though. It sucks to hear about guys getting seriously injured that early in their careers. I can't say I didn't see it coming though.

So he's part of the next wave after they lose either Stras or Zimmerman to free agency. Still a tremendous talent. Hopefully he comes back 100%.

After over 100 years of baseball, people still don't teach kids how to pitch without hurting their arms.

With all the TJ surgeries you read about lately, I wonder what the % of major & minor league pitchers have gone thru the surgery in the last 10 years. Is it over 5%?

Imo TJ surgeries (and all arm injuries) are up because HS/college coaches abuse pitchers less now. Those with better mechanics and more durable bodies used to be the only ones that survived to the majors. Another cause is probably due strengthening programs that strengthen muscles but probably don't help the flexibility and ligaments as much.

It's unfortunate Giolito but TJ is very successful nowadays and a one year delay in development isn't the end of the world.

Originally Posted by JDW

With all the TJ surgeries you read about lately, I wonder what the % of major & minor league pitchers have gone thru the surgery in the last 10 years. Is it over 5%?

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/T...itchers-022012

This article lists the percent of active big leaguers with TJ at 11 percent. I'd expect the number to dip slightly from 11% over the past 10 years, but I'd wager it's over 5%. God bless surgeons

Hell even if he needs TJ, he's still got a huge ceiling and well worth the gamble for the Nats.

Originally Posted by jimbo92107

After over 100 years of baseball, people still don't teach kids how to pitch without hurting their arms.

That cause throwing a baseball repeatedly isn't a healthy motion for the human body.

Originally Posted by kab21

Imo TJ surgeries (and all arm injuries) are up because HS/college coaches abuse pitchers less now. Those with better mechanics and more durable bodies used to be the only ones that survived to the majors. Another cause is probably due strengthening programs that strengthen muscles but probably don't help the flexibility and ligaments as much.

It's unfortunate Giolito but TJ is very successful nowadays and a one year delay in development isn't the end of the world.

The strengthening thing is something I've looked into extensively (as much as I can get anyway) through college S&C coaches that will respond to my queries. Very few have specific programs for pitchers, instead focusing on a total team strengthening plan and leaving flexibility/range of motion training to the pitching coach. I'm not a fan of that program at all. That certainly doesn't explain high schoolers, although if the strength and conditioning is poor or substandard at the collegiate level, you can bet that it's drastically worse than that at the high school level, even the "good" high schools.

Originally Posted by biggentleben

The strengthening thing is something I've looked into extensively (as much as I can get anyway) through college S&C coaches that will respond to my queries. Very few have specific programs for pitchers, instead focusing on a total team strengthening plan and leaving flexibility/range of motion training to the pitching coach. I'm not a fan of that program at all. That certainly doesn't explain high schoolers, although if the strength and conditioning is poor or substandard at the collegiate level, you can bet that it's drastically worse than that at the high school level, even the "good" high schools.

I think we're on the same page but I was talking about the pitchers adding strength while also not adding flexibility similar to what occurs in most weight rooms/gyms. Too many people are busy bulking up (including baseball players) and then straining muscles because they only concentrate on bulking up. Additionally by bulking up and being able to throw harder you are also putting more stress on ligaments that might not be able to proportionately increase their ability to take the stress. Baseball players today are significantly different than the skinny guys from 25+ years ago.

I seem to remember reading somewhere (could be wrong here) that Tampa Bay has consistently had less TJ pitchers than the rest of the league... if that's true, I have to wonder what they are doing out there.

Originally Posted by kab21

Originally Posted by biggentleben

The strengthening thing is something I've looked into extensively (as much as I can get anyway) through college S&C coaches that will respond to my queries. Very few have specific programs for pitchers, instead focusing on a total team strengthening plan and leaving flexibility/range of motion training to the pitching coach. I'm not a fan of that program at all. That certainly doesn't explain high schoolers, although if the strength and conditioning is poor or substandard at the collegiate level, you can bet that it's drastically worse than that at the high school level, even the "good" high schools.

I think we're on the same page but I was talking about the pitchers adding strength while also not adding flexibility similar to what occurs in most weight rooms/gyms. Too many people are busy bulking up (including baseball players) and then straining muscles because they only concentrate on bulking up. Additionally by bulking up and being able to throw harder you are also putting more stress on ligaments that might not be able to proportionately increase their ability to take the stress. Baseball players today are significantly different than the skinny guys from 25+ years ago.

Yeah, that's where I'm coming from. New muscle needs to be put through extensive flexibility to continue to provide the same range of motion as previous muscle did. It's why we can all touch our nose to our knees when we're little tykes, but few continue to do that as teenagers, let alone adults. What I was saying is that S&C guys are running a "beef 'em up" program without coordination to ensure the joints remain as flexible as they were previously. There is no reason a guy couldn't be very physically strong and maintain a healthy arm, but it requires focus on pliability of the joint along with strength of it.

If you listen to Keith Law, he basically thinks that most hard throwing pitchers are going to need to go through TJ at some point anyway, so they may as well get it out of the way earlier in their career. Even if Giolito does have to have surgery, this was still a great pick for the Nats and Giolito still has more upside than any other pitcher in the draft.

at least they can limit him to 160 innings in his first full year back & not have to explain it.

It's official. TJ surgery for Giolito:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...1e9c_blog.html