08-10-2012, 08:43 AM #21
Machado's OPS at a similar level in 2011 was lower than Sano's, yet he was promoted to A+ that same year, after only 170 PA, so he is a good comparable. The arbitration clock won't start when he reaches Ft. Myers, either. The Twins have a history of slowly promoting guys in their system, with only a few exceptions, and it looks like Sano isn't going to be one of those exceptions.
As we consider the Twins decisions at promoting players, I think we need to look at how poorly they have been at developing players over the last 5 years before we continue to give the benefit of the doubt to their decisions. The recent track record sucks and so I am disappointed when it seems to be "business as usual". I may jump off a bridge if I hear the Twins are working with Sano on going the other way...
08-10-2012, 09:23 AM #22
I agree with you that the Twins haven't developed players as well as they should over the last 5 years, but I don't see how pushing kids who clearly still are rough around the edges fixes that.
08-10-2012, 12:07 PM #23
08-10-2012, 12:33 PM #24
Mauer, Span, Morneau, Revere, Ploufee, Garza, Perkins, Ramos, Santana (they did rebuild him once he got to MN) Cuddyer, Kubel & Baker (plus I'm sure I'm missing some guys)
Now name me another teams that's produced that much MLB talent in the last decade? I agree that the last 5 years have sucked as far as player development, but you make it seem like every teams is pumping out All-Stars from every draft.
08-10-2012, 05:36 PM #25
I don't think listing the MLB players that have come through the Twins system is really a good example DPJ. I'm not a fan of moving some players slowly, like Arcia. On the other hand you get guys like Plouffe and Span that are marginal prospects most of the way but still have talent. You could eve0n say they were aggressive with Plouffe, he was one of the younger players in the Eastern League when he led the league in 2b! The Twins just haven't had the right talent to promote aggressive. Arcia has actually move through the system pretty quickly, despite very good talent in the entire system for the OF. I really wouldn't say the Twins are extremely slow at promotions, just they are patient. FWIW, Sano shouldn't be promoted because he hasn't played well enough and it wouldln't help him any to move to the FSL. The things he needs to work on he can do in the MWL. He would probably do just fine, but it is going to be easier to make adjustments at this level than it will in the FSL. I doubt he or Rosario get called up mid-season next year either, unless they are destroying it like Arcia did this year.
08-10-2012, 06:25 PM #26
While the Orioles have been one of the majors biggest jokes, after hiring Buck Schowalter...they have tried hard to win.
They know that Machado/Bundy are the real deals & arent worried about having them master a level/having their minor league teams get to the playoffs, ala MN, but to get in the time & get to the next level to help the big club win.
Machado is in the majors, but MN would have him in Ft Myers right now, no question IMO,....as they will Sano/Rosario next yr.
I also am one to believe that Bryce Harper would be in High A also w/MN, as he didnt dominate in his higher minor league play, but WASH knows he was a major league talent, not a minor league filler.
Only real frustrating part now to me isnt Sano, but Hicks/Arcia. Terry Ryan has hinted hard that Hicks (despite having to be protected this winter) wont be recalled & they want him in winter ball first. Arcia is still on the bubble for a recall ....says the organization. How much more can he do.
If Twins want to disprove this, how about putting their best prospects in AAA instead of Clete Thomas/Wilkin Ramirez etc...guys who will be released after the next 25 AAA gms.
08-10-2012, 07:47 PM #27
"both Morneau and Mauer were quickly moved through the system. So that leaves Span from you list as an example to compare to Sano?"
Mauer spent his first full minor league season in Low A. At basically the same age, so will Sano. Next year, Sano could move up a level or two, like Mauer did. Or, he could move at the Revere pace and move up one step at a time. Either is fine. At the end of the day, it's not about getting them there quickly... it's about them being ready when they get there. They've moved Arcia pretty quickly. Hicks was moved slowly early, and clearly he needed that. There is no booklet that says exactly how long a player should take to advance.
Why should Hicks come up for September? I get it, if he's going to play, like Benson and Parmelee and Tosoni did last year. But if Willingham, Span and Revere are all there and playing, then he might as well go play elsewhere. They'll add him to the 40 man roster either way.
Also, there is a month left in the season. New Britain is very near a playoff spot, and Rochester is somehow finding themselves back into the playoff conversation. The Twins have shown a willingness to call guys up from AA if they're playing well, so why mess things up for those teams? No one's development is being stalled.
08-10-2012, 07:53 PM #28
Also, this is where you have to trust he scouts and coaching staffs and such... although Machado's AA numbers were not that great, he's come up and had 2 hits in his first game and homered tonight.
08-10-2012, 08:05 PM #29
08-10-2012, 11:15 PM #30
08-11-2012, 02:07 AM #31
08-11-2012, 10:22 AM #32
Twins got the benefit of the doubt for a decade on how they operated. For me, coming off the Bill Smith era, they've lost that trust from many fans & some think have been passed by many organizations in how they operate.
Im fine with Sano/Rosario staying in Beloit as next yr they 'could' move up quickly like Arcia did & that would be fine.
However, I dont hear of/see other teams keeping high prospects at a level so they can play in the playoffs but rather are trying to get them advanced ASAP to help the major league team....not the minor league ones.
On Hicks (Hermann/Hermsen etc), I believe 100% in promoting guys in Sept that will either WILL be added to 40 man that winter/spent the entire yr on 40 man & deserve it. WHY?? Seein the preverbial carrott of how good the life in the majors is should give these guys the work ethic that winter/next spring to bust their ass (not that they dont anyways). Twins/Gardy have always used the excuse that there isnt enough playing time.....who said they had to play?? They can sit & watch & see HOW to act as a major leaguer/see what they have to do to be there full time. I truly believe in that.
While service time matters, at that point I dont make the decisions on it yet.
08-11-2012, 12:10 PM #33
They usually call-up deserving players. I really don't like siding with the Twins on promoting players, because I have my gripes with them. In this case though, you can't fault them for wanting their guys to play an entire season instead of sitting on the bench. When it is their time, they call guys up. Revere, Benson, Parmelee, Span, Cuddy, Kubel, Neshek, Perkins all have come up and gotten playing time after seasons were over in the minors. I expect the same might happen this year, its just a month away still. There is really little benefit to coming up other than giving them a cup of coffee.
I do wish they would be a little more aggressive, but you can't pick that out as a main complaint. I have a problem with the big picture, and think prospect promotions is just a small part of that. I fully expect 1 or 2 OF prospects to come up in Sept. and take away AB's from older guys to allow them to finish the season healthy (pretty much what happened last year, just not the same scale). Your big problem is there hasn't been the talent to promote. I had a big problem with how they handled Cuddy, Bartlett, Kubel, Slama. But that is because they were making excuses about keeping them down when they should have been up contributing to playoff teams. If the Twins were a playoff team now and still leaving Hendriks in AAA, I'd be pissed. However, there is little reason to if they are working on something specific in a lost season.
08-11-2012, 12:22 PM #34
After a solid 10 yr run, MN had grown comfortable with how to run the minor leagues/promotions & had reasonings to why they did such things. They are definately still attempting to find a comfort level now that they are one of the laughingstock teams for the past 2 yrs.
They are trying to stay with their philosiphy (older players/younger players needed to develop) but they tried that in 93/96 & got them stuck for another 4/5 yrs. Just hope they stubbornly wont change with the times & their past 2 yrs dont turn into another decade of bad ball. They have some high level position players & hopefully they dont burn em out sitting in minors/levels too long.