Thread: What are the Marlins doing?

Just heard on ESPN that if the Marlins move Josh Johnson they will have reduced their payroll by ~40%. That would be like the Twins approaching a $60M salary again.

Looks like Loria is in another salary dump.

Originally Posted by Seth Stohs

I'm in a little awe right now that all the Marlins could get for Hanley (and LHP Randy Choate) was Nathan Eovaldi and Scott McGough. Eovaldi was the Dodger's #2 prospect coming into the season, but McGough wasn't in anyone's top 20 Dodgers prospect lists.

I get that Hanley has had a down year statistically, and that he can be a big headache and that he's owed a lot of money next year yet... but I guess I thought he'd have more trade value...

Kind of makes me wonder if this haul affects what the Twins can get for Span or even Willingham. Their contracts are much more friendly. I think the Twins could do better than this for them... but who knows!?

I think that the Twins can do better. Eovaldi was BA's #92 prospect overall and McGough has closer stuff but is a reliever, that's why was not ranked... I was trying to find comparables for the Ramirez plus Choate from the Twins and the closest I could go to was something like Morneau plus Burton. And that is not even close (Morneau plus Burton have more value because of team control and age on Burton and overall owed to Morneau plus better performance recently, plus Morneau can play on the field.) The Dodgers took a huge slice of that payroll as well. If anything, this may give an indication towards Morneau's value.

The Marlins increased they payroll by about $25 million this year, and with raises that would have gone up next year, even after loosing a few big salary free agents this offseason and signing no one. If that is the neighborhood of what they can afford, of course they are paying attention to the payroll. Ramirez isn't worth his contract, so freeing up his money to sign some guys this offseason just makes sense. Trading Sanchez and Infante for prospects when they aren't going to win this year makes probably sense regardless. If teams blow them away for Johnson, why not listen? They aren't shopping him desperately and they say they were only going to trade one of him and Sanchez. None of this seems remarkable to me.

Hanley went from a passable defender whose bat overwhelmed his defensive deficiencies at SS to a horrid defensive 3B in two seasons while the bat has been pretty meh both of those years. Eovaldi in that new stadium could be a beast as it plays very well to his strengths. The Marlins are putting together their next pseudo-2003 rotation with guys like Jose Fernandez, Eovaldi, and Jacob Turner headlining a 2014-2015 rotation.

I'll be interested to see how this affects their attendance. They have been in the bottom five of MLB for a dozen years now, and for the first time they've risen above that (new ballpark!). This salary-dump/rebuild-for-a-run-3-years-down-the-road will probably send that back into the toilet. My guess is a few hardcore fans (from "Marlins Daily" no doubt) are ecstatic at the forward-looking approach Miami is taking, while the average fan sees them getting rid of the players that made the team interesting for them.

Originally Posted by sbknudson

I'll be interested to see how this affects their attendance. They have been in the bottom five of MLB for a dozen years now, and for the first time they've risen above that (new ballpark!). This salary-dump/rebuild-for-a-run-3-years-down-the-road will probably send that back into the toilet. My guess is a few hardcore fans (from "Marlins Daily" no doubt) are ecstatic at the forward-looking approach Miami is taking, while the average fan sees them getting rid of the players that made the team interesting for them.

I'm going to Miami and taking in a Marlins game late in the season. Even before their season had taken a turn south, tickets on StubHub were plentiful and cheap (the ones I bought were about half what it would have cost to buy through the team site, including all fees). So yeah...the ballpark didn't even seem to be having a HUGE effect even without a bad team to worry about for possibly a few years. Not great news for them, I wouldn't think. And of course, that's a one-game sample, so maybe not a great representation of their situation...

I was at a game in June and the stadium was half empty.

Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave

I was at a game in June and the stadium was half empty.

I believe that; baseball in Florida in the summer is a tough sell, even indoors. Tampa has the same problem. Even with the bump, they were still in the bottom half of the league - just near the top of that bottom half, instead of near the very bottom.

Loria is the worst owner in baseball. Maybe even in all sports.

Originally Posted by lecroy24fan

Loria is the worst owner in baseball. Maybe even in all sports.

Selig and his cronies should be ashamed of all the enabling they've done for that slimeball.

What have they done that's so bad? Trade an underachieving starting pitcher, a middle infielder, and pain in the ass who hasn't backed it up on the field the last year seasons. If they made any mistakes it was before the season. Not trading Ramirez after they signed Reyes and hiring Ozzie Guillen.

At least the citizens of Miami got the stadium they so desperately wanted.

I can understand that this sends a bad message but these aren't bad moves for the team to move forward. they traded a soon to be FA, a 30+ yr old utility player and prima donna that needed to get out. Josh Johnson is a continual injury waiting to happen and a FA in 1.5 yrs. If they can land a top prospect for him then that's good long term. And they freed up a bunch of money to make another splash if they want.

Originally Posted by kab21

I can understand that this sends a bad message but these aren't bad moves for the team to move forward. they traded a soon to be FA, a 30+ yr old utility player and prima donna that needed to get out. Josh Johnson is a continual injury waiting to happen and a FA in 1.5 yrs. If they can land a top prospect for him then that's good long term. And they freed up a bunch of money to make another splash if they want.

I understand the moves and if it was anyone other than Loria doing it, I might even agree with them.

But if I was one of the fourteen Marlins fans in Miami, I'd be frothing at the mouth right now. PR has to be a consideration and given Loria's track record, you don't firesale four months after opening a publicly-financed stadium.

I can understand that this sends a bad message but these aren't bad moves for the team to move forward. they traded a soon to be FA, a 30+ yr old utility player and prima donna that needed to get out. Josh Johnson is a continual injury waiting to happen and a FA in 1.5 yrs. If they can land a top prospect for him then that's good long term. And they freed up a bunch of money to make another splash if they want.

Anyone think a similar backlash is what might be preventing the Twins from really cleaning house this deadline? It probably makes sense to trade Morneau, Willingham, and Span in addition to Liriano (and Capps and Pavano if they come back by the end of August), but the big talker will be dropping all that salary only three years after moving into a new stadium and the Pohlads lining their pockets.

Even if it is the right baseball moves, there is a huge PR consideration.

Losing is bad PR also.

Miami has the Heat. No reason to feel sorry for them.

Originally Posted by kab21

Losing is bad PR also.

True, but there is no guarantee that trading Willingham will increase wins down the line. It does depend (obviously) on what the package is in return. He is signed to a good contract, isn't blocking anyone right now, and doesn't have an obvious replacement in the immediate future.

I think there is value in keeping a certain level of play (that is, don't let it completely collapse) that could outweigh an uncertain benefit down the line.