Thread: Time for Liriano to go

Originally Posted by StormJH1

I've seen enough and the Twins may have too. Your point is absolutely valid, but I think it would be more appropriate if the Twins still viewed him as an "upside" guy with a future in this rotation. How could they? Even if he strung together 3 great outings, there's still that chance he comes out and gets absolutely destroyed next time out. And since the start of 2011, those stretches have lasted for games at a time.

I think "trade value" is mostly a lost cause at this point...you could argue that moving him to the pen as a lefty strikeout specialist would actually ENHANCE his value to a contender in July, in the event he succeeded in that role. Because whatever this is...it ain't working.

The pen is a different mindset and it might suit him. When you start... You have to mix it up. That hitter you are facing in the 1st is coming up again to face you. You can't just bring it... It's a mind game and he just might not be grasping the mind game part.

If you put him in the pen for a LOOGY role or set up guy. He won't have to think. He can just bring it and challenge hitters. 2 seam, slider, 4 seam, change, slider. Put a k in the book. It might work. It just might.

I've also heard he doesn't handle pressure well. But as long as he doesn't think. As long as he just throws. Brings it. Who knows.

Originally Posted by StormJH1

I've seen enough and the Twins may have too. Your point is absolutely valid, but I think it would be more appropriate if the Twins still viewed him as an "upside" guy with a future in this rotation. How could they? Even if he strung together 3 great outings, there's still that chance he comes out and gets absolutely destroyed next time out. And since the start of 2011, those stretches have lasted for games at a time.

I think "trade value" is mostly a lost cause at this point...you could argue that moving him to the pen as a lefty strikeout specialist would actually ENHANCE his value to a contender in July, in the event he succeeded in that role. Because whatever this is...it ain't working.

Liriano's problem is he can't throw strikes, I'm not sure a move to the bullpen would help him to much at this point. Things could get even worse potentially!

I mean, I am as frustrated as it comes with the guy, at this point my only hope is he somehow manages to show a bit of a spark to make some team willing to take him off our hands at the trade deadline for a C type prospect, anything more would be a nice win in my book.

After spring training I really thought he had a shot at 180+ IP and a sub 4.00 ERA...ugh, that seems like years ago instead of just a month ago :/

Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave

Liriano's problem is he can't throw strikes, I'm not sure a move to the bullpen would help him to much at this point. Things could get even worse potentially!

I mean, I am as frustrated as it comes with the guy, at this point my only hope is he somehow manages to show a bit of a spark to make some team willing to take him off our hands at the trade deadline for a C type prospect, anything more would be a nice win in my book.

After spring training I really thought he had a shot at 180+ IP and a sub 4.00 ERA...ugh, that seems like years ago instead of just a month ago :/

You are right... The only thing I can say is that his location problems MAY stem from thinking too much. Worry to much... You try to locate. Try to locate without having the skill set to locate and you got walks. I think he should go an inning out pf the pen. Let it buck and see what happens. It might fail miserably but it also might work.

We know for sure that this finesse thing isn't working. Even Verlander has to mix it up as a starter. Out of the pen he could just challenge. It might work.

Originally Posted by Riverbrian

You are right... The only thing I can say is that his location problems MAY stem from thinking too much. Worry to much... You try to locate. Try to locate without having the skill set to locate and you got walks. I think he should go an inning out pf the pen. Let it buck and see what happens. It might fail miserably but it also might work.

We know for sure that this finesse thing isn't working. Even Verlander has to mix it up as a starter. Out of the pen he could just challenge. It might work.

I agree. I think a good chunck of his control issues are from too many layers of thinking that come with starting pitching. As a reliever, you know you are going out there to get a couple of guys or maybe pitch an inning or two at the most. That takes a lot of thinking out of the equation and allows you to just go after hitters. Correct me if I am wrong, but a lot of failed starters have found a nitch in the bullpen.

Originally Posted by TwinsGuy55422

I agree. I think a good chunck of his control issues are from too many layers of thinking that come with starting pitching. As a reliever, you know you are going out there to get a couple of guys or maybe pitch an inning or two at the most. That takes a lot of thinking out of the equation and allows you to just go after hitters. Correct me if I am wrong, but a lot of failed starters have found a nitch in the bullpen.

I won't correct you. You are not wrong.

Gardy said something interesting last night. He said after Mauers walk that Lester started pounding the strike zone because he wanted to stay out there and that is what good pitchers do when their pitch count starts getting high. I would take a different approach to Liriano. I would tell him he is going to throw 120 pitches unless he completes the game first. I know Pinnella did that with someone when their pen was wore out and I think he gave up 17 runs but he turned things around right after that and ad a pretty decent couple years. What could it hurt. Even if he throws his arm out that wouldn't be a great loss the way he is going and if it worked Gardy would look like a genious.

I was looking through Liriano's splits to see if I could see any redeeming stats that stand out... The only thing that stood out was that he has pitched well in the first inning, which tells me, if his next start is just as bad, they should try him in the bullpen to see if he can hold it together for one inning, like he does in his starts... Incredibly, opposing hitters are batting .415 against Liriano on balls in play... That is powerful bad... Compare that to Pavano in 2011, when he led the league in hits allowed and opposing batters hit .291 on balls in play... Also, I found it amazing that he has yet to retire a No. 8 hitter this season...

I haven't seen any mention here of a tidbit found on mlbtraderumors.com, which states that "it was announced" (Dave St. Peter?) that Liriano would skip his next start and pitch on May 1. Sounds like no bullpen duty, just rest; we shall see.

Definitely give him a shot in the bullpen. Whatever Liriano's problem is seems to be between the ears. Hopefully the change will do him good. Give him a shot at redeeming himself and possibly the chance of another team (not the Twins) signing him next year.

Originally Posted by Highabove

I would give him a shot in the Bullpen.
His first innings seem to be OK.
Remember LaTroy Hawkins?

Unfortunately I do remember LaTroy Hawkins. Actually Hawkins may be a good analogy. You never know what you will get on any given day.