Thread: On the Twins, the Yankees and Being Psyched Out

Originally Posted by one_eyed_jack

OK, so it's all about the manager saying the right thing to his players. The fact that the Yankees had a lot more talent, a lot more experience and healthier rosters has nothing to do with it. Check, got it.

Did I say that? Perhaps you need a reading lesson. Isn't it just possible that it could be a combination of the two? Does it ALWAYS have to be black or white? Seriously, was the difference in talent, experience and health between the teams enough to make the Twins play like the 61 Mets and the Yankees play like the 27 Yankees? Because that's about how the results have been. Those are the facts, there is nothing in the difference in talent, experience, etc. to explain the domination the Yankees have shown over the Twins.

It really ticks me off when people put words in my mouth...especially when I clearly posted something different.

Take a look at our best players of any playoff team since 2001 and what marquee player did better?

I guess some of us understand that there has often been talent gap between the Yankees and Twins. However, it does NOT explain a 20-63 record (including Playoffs) against the Yankees since Gardenhire took over. Especially when you consider the Twins record vs. everyone else during this time. There is something else going on, and 83 games is more than enough to just blame it upon a small sample size. If you want to blame it on ducky's and bunny's that's your business, but those of us that have actually watched the games have seen first hand how the manager mangages tight and that can only rub off on the players. If you refuse to believe that the mind has any impact on a a player/teams performance then I'm not going to change your mind, despite "something" being at play here.

There is definitely something going on here when the record is 20-63. The Yankees have simply not been that much better.

Originally Posted by whydidnt

those of us that have actually watched the games have seen first hand how the manager mangages tight

At some point will there be a definition given of "tight managing" and then some examples of this occuring? Maybe something other than the equivalent of "I knew it when I saw it" would be helpful.

Originally Posted by CDog

At some point will there be a definition given of "tight managing" and then some examples of this occuring? Maybe something other than the equivalent of "I knew it when I saw it" would be helpful.

I'm not going to go back and analyze each game to point out the specifics, but we've seen things like bunting in the 1st or 2nd inning (playing for a single run early?). Getting relief pitchers up early, bring the closer in before he usually does, letting the closer pitch longer than normal, etc. If you watch most the games you see that Gardenhire manages a certain way, and often against the Yankees he makes decisions that are "strange", at least for him.

I'm still waiting for one of you nay-sayers to provide a reasonable explanation for the 20-63 record that goes beyond the talent difference, which we know isn't 43 games. What is it? Or do you just know that it's nothing because you saw it?

Originally Posted by one_eyed_jack

Heyman's piece is ridiculous. He's honestly suggesting that the '03 and '04 Twins were evenly matched with the Yankee teams of those years? Please. Compare the records, rosters, and payrolls. It's not even close. And I find it hard to believe that what happened to them in the playoffs those years would somehow be the heads of an almost completely different roster of guys 5 years later. There were a lot of close games between the teams, and you can't point to a lot of reasons the Yankees won. They had more talent and more experience. The Twins caught some bad breaks (Koskie's double, Cuzzi's foul ball call, Morneau out in '09 and '10) and made some dumb base-running mistakes. But the east coast centric national media loves the storyline of a "Yankee mystique" so powerful that the mere sight of Yankee uniforms has small-market teams like the Twins quivering with fear. So they keep hyping that. But it's silly. Bear in mind Heyman is the guy who thinks Morris should be in the HOF but not Blyleven, so that should tell you a bit about his knowledge level of baseball in general and the Twins in particular.

On your primary point, which was that the Twins were NEVER "equally matched" with the Yankees in terms of talent, you are absolutely right. I don't think even the most partisan Twins fans would ever actually admit that the Twins could be "expected" to beat the Yankees in any given year, be it '03, '04, '09, or '10.

That being said however, you look at how badly we performed in ALL of those series put together, along with our regular season futility against them, and there was something more going on than simply them being the better team. I think the Yankees were better than Tigers in most years since 2006, also, yet the Tigers have beaten them in critical playoff series because they didn't look or play scared. I even felt like you could see a difference in the demeanor of "rental" Twins like Orlando Cabrera, Orlando Hudson, and Jon Rauch, who looked like they were able to go about their business, and didn't freak out when they saw pinstripes.

Moreover, I think 2006 was the biggest disappointment of all because it showed that it's bigger than just a "Yankees" problem. That 2006 A's team SUCKED. I'm sorry. Marco Scutaro and Mark Kotsay kicked the crap out of us. Torii was diving 10 feet away from routine base hits in center, and I remember dumb plays in the field and on the basepaths (Bartlett) that looked nothing like the team we saw all year.

This team has been great for its fans the past decade, but it could have been so much better. With the exception of Game 163 in 2009, they simply do not get up for big games. Virtually all of their signature wins/moments involved beating other teams from the AL Central (Royals in 2003; grabbing pennant from the Tigers in '06 and '09; repeatedly smoking the White Sox at home). To think of them beating an AL East or West team in a game of real significance is almost unthinkable, and that's sad for as good as they've been.