Thread: Ronny Cedeno: A Good Fit?

Cedeno was released by the Cardinals today, but had a pretty good ST overall with St. Louis hitting for a .790 OPS in 16 games. He would be likely be available for 1 million for 1 year. Cardinals release Ronny Cedeno | HardballTalk

Cedeno could work as our starting shortstop because he's an upgrade over Florimon and he's still 30 years old. He's basically a cheap, replacement level player. Maybe it is a step sideways because he's probably not better than Carroll as an infield bench player and is not significantly better than Florimon, but personally I'd feel much more comfortable giving him at bats than Pedro. Plus, they could release him at any time just like St. Louis did.

Adding another mediocre bad to the 3-4 mediocre bats the Twins' have at middle infield, when this bat has a worse glove than at least 2 of the existing ones (Florimon, Escobar) and is older and costs twice as much, does not make much sense...

Originally Posted by thrylos98

Adding another mediocre bad

Amusing Freudian typo, my brother.

Originally Posted by thrylos98

to the 3-4 mediocre bats the Twins' have at middle infield, when this bat has a worse glove than at least 2 of the existing ones (Florimon, Escobar) and is older and costs twice as much, does not make much sense...

At some point it comes down to room on the 40-man, and not even just the money. Which mediocrity do you cut from the 40-man to add another mediocrity in his place? If it's pretty close to a wash, why bother? You can't just add up 0.5 WAR from 90 players and get where you need to be.

Originally Posted by YourHouseIsMyHouse

...Cedeno could work as our starting shortstop because he's an upgrade over Florimon and he's still 30 years old. He's basically a cheap, replacement level player. Maybe it is a step sideways because he's probably not better than Carroll as an infield bench player and is not significantly better than Florimon, but personally I'd feel much more comfortable giving him at bats than Pedro.

Not a bad idea, but it looks like the Twins are gradually more resigned to the rebuilding process they are denying is underway. PR spin to the contrary, the Twins know they'll suck and would rather see what they have in Florscobar. That's probably for the best.

That being said, Cedeno is the sort of player they should have targeted instead of Carroll going into a lost 2012. Jamey is a moderately better player, but cost a bunch more, is much older, and required a two year deal that will turn into three when, not if, he goes over 400 PA's this season.

Originally Posted by LaBombo

Not a bad idea, but it looks like the Twins are gradually more resigned to the rebuilding process they are denying is underway. PR spin to the contrary, the Twins know they'll suck and would rather see what they have in Florscobar. That's probably for the best.

That being said, Cedeno is the sort of player they should have targeted instead of Carroll going into a lost 2012. Jamey is a moderately better player, but cost a bunch more, is much older, and required a two year deal that will turn into three when, not if, he goes over 400 PA's this season.

they are not going to let Carroll go over 400 PA's this year, I can almost guarantee that.

Agree again with Mr. Brooks. Carroll, if he stays all year with the Twins, will probably get 390-395 PAs.

Well, I'd be on board. By June, this team is going to be looking to replace some guys in the middle infield. They are going to want some options.

Florimon might very well be hitting .180 by midyear. At that point, he's going to be sent down, not as a punishment but as an act of mercy. It would be nice not to have Escobar, who is essentially the same player, as a replacement.

I also would be on board with the move as it would allow Escobar to play full-time in AAA. I am on record back in January as saying I wish they had signed him. I don't necessarily agree with John that Florimon is a lost cause, but I would like to have a proven option in case he doesn't pan out. I am still on board with giving Florimon the job. Cedeno is 30 and should be able to accept a bench role.

Reasons why the Cardinals may have released him in spite of losing their starting shortstop.

-After 2500 MLB PA his career OPS is .647. How does this not get mentioned in the post?

-He is a poor fielding shortstop according to both scouting report and defensive metrics.

-At 30, he has no upside.

Should we throw all of that out because of data from 16 ST games? The Cardinals are regarded as a smart organization with a need at SS. I hope the Twins are as smart.

They need to give this job to the guy with the best glove and let the bat grow. If they have two plus defenders that increases the hope that one will grow his bat over time.

Originally Posted by jorgenswest

Reasons why the Cardinals may have released him in spite of losing their starting shortstop.

-After 2500 MLB PA his career OPS is .647. How does this not get mentioned in the post?

-He is a poor fielding shortstop according to both scouting report and defensive metrics.

-At 30, he has no upside.

Should we throw all of that out because of data from 16 ST games? The Cardinals are regarded as a smart organization with a need at SS. I hope the Twins are as smart.

They need to give this job to the guy with the best glove and let the bat grow. If they have two plus defenders that increases the hope that one will grow his bat over time.

The last three years it is .670 which is an OPS+ of 85 for a SS. It's not fantastic, but it's a big difference from the .647 you're trying to use. Florimon will be lucky to get above .600 by the look of things. Cedeno is not a great defender, but he's about replacement level in the field and has been better at second base obviously (where we have another ?). Your 3rd dash is also completely moot because Florimon and Dozier don't have any real upside either.

Escobar is young enough and has the defensive ability to grow into a starter. There have been many shortstops that enter the majors with their glove and become adequate at the plate.

Cedeno is a poor defender. There is no way his mediocre bat makes up for his defense. You are right about the .670. His bat has grown since his mid 20s. The bats of the Twin middle infielders can improve also with major league playing time.

No, no and no.

Originally Posted by stringer bell

Agree again with Mr. Brooks. Carroll, if he stays all year with the Twins, will probably get 390-395 PAs.

Over Gardy's dead body...

Originally Posted by jokin

Over Gardy's dead body...

I think TR will make it clear to Gardy that Carroll is not to go over 400 PA's unless we are somehow in the playoff hunt late in the season.
And, I think he will make it clear to him that he is not asking, he is telling, and I think he would fire him if Gardy ignores that demand.
I would have never thought that TR would fire Gardy, but there has been some very noticeable tension between the two the last few months.

Cedeno is a bad player...no.

Also I don't get all the Caroll hate: yes he isn't an all-star but he is a perfectly acceptable staring SS or 2B for a good number of teams. Yeah he is old, but keep in mind he still had the 3rd highest OBP of .343 on the team last year and played a pretty solid defense as well, the idea that his option next year is some "team killer" is preposterous as well, if he gets 401 PA he is only owed 2 million dollars, even if by some miracle he is only the third best MI option for us at that point he still makes a decent UTIL player and a decent clubhouse guy.

Originally Posted by Mr. Brooks

I think TR will make it clear to Gardy that Carroll is not to go over 400 PA's unless we are somehow in the playoff hunt late in the season.
And, I think he will make it clear to him that he is not asking, he is telling, and I think he would fire him if Gardy ignores that demand.
I would have never thought that TR would fire Gardy, but there has been some very noticeable tension between the two the last few months.

If Carroll remains to be one of the best two options for 2B/SS throughout the year (spoiler alert: there is a really good chance!) you gotta give him the at-bats. Again as mentioned before it's only 2 million dollars ($3 million less than we owe EACH to Correia and Blackburn this year!) If not I imagine the agent could possibly file a grievance with the players union? Hell, if he is giving us a .343 OBP out of the 9 hole, keep him playing every day!

Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave

Cedeno is a bad player...no.

Also I don't get all the Caroll hate: yes he isn't an all-star but he is a perfectly acceptable staring SS or 2B for a good number of teams. Yeah he is old, but keep in mind he still had the 3rd highest OBP of .343 on the team last year and played a pretty solid defense as well, the idea that his option next year is some "team killer" is preposterous as well, if he gets 401 PA he is only owed 2 million dollars, even if by some miracle he is only the third best MI option for us at that point he still makes a decent UTIL player and a decent clubhouse guy.

Its not about the money, and its not about Carroll. He's a quality player for what he is.
Its about this team getting younger, and having guys coming through the system that will needed to be added to the 40 man, etc.
I'm not even saying they wouldnt like to bring him back for 2014, I just think they want to have the option, not be binded to it.
You never know how prospects are going to develop this year, you dont know what kind of trade offers you are going to get, you dont know which pending FA's from other teams might play well and start to become attractive, etc.
There is just a ton of unpredictable things that will happen between now and December, you would like to be able to have that option of having a spot on the roster open if someone younger is ready for it.
And, there is nothing to lose. If nobody is ready, and no FA's or trade options are attractive to the team, they can still bring him back on a 1 year deal.

Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave

If Carroll remains to be one of the best two options for 2B/SS throughout the year (spoiler alert: there is a really good chance!) you gotta give him the at-bats. Again as mentioned before it's only 2 million dollars ($3 million less than we owe EACH to Correia and Blackburn this year!) If not I imagine the agent could possibly file a grievance with the players union? Hell, if he is giving us a .343 OBP out of the 9 hole, keep him playing every day!

Why do you "have" to give him at bats?
Is there some kind of glory to winning 72 games instead of only 70?
And no, the union cant do anything about it. Its not like they are putting him on the DL when he's really not hurt or something shady like that. The team can fill out the lineup any way they choose, its not up to the player or the agent. Teams do this all the time with vesting players. The agents and player may not like it, but they know its the business and know there is nothing they can do about it.

No point in obligating a contract for Carroll for 2014 when I believe the club will improve with players who are not on the roster right now. I appreciate what Carroll offers and he is a great example to every ballplayer on the roster, but he shouldn't be on the roster in 2014.

First of all, I am FASCINATED by the obsession around here with Carroll and that $2 million next year. WHO CARES!? $2 million for a 2014 utility infielder is really not terrible. I laugh every time I see this strange obsession manifest itself.

Second, why on earth should they add aging mediocrity to the middle infield? Florimon is NOT going to be as terrible as you all somehow hope he is. Also, Cedeno is not good AT ALL. One might as well just throw Ray Olmedo up there. It's the same result (both dumb).

Third, I cannot fathom why anyone wants to add more mediocre aging nonsense to the Twins middle infield. That is generally YOUR complaint about Carroll in the first place!