Thread: Neal: Deduno firmly in mix for rotation spot

I'm not sure how Deduno looking sharp means that Hendriks is no good but whatever. lol

When it comes to Deduno last night... 2 of his 3 walks came in the 5th inning in the rain and a sliding foot strike. I'm not sure who here has pitched in similiar conditions but when your lead foot slides... It messes you up.

I'm not saying his control is fixed but to those who keep bringing it up... I'd like to point out that if you didn't know he had control issues and watched him pitch last night for the first time... you wouldnt assume control issues. He was sharp.

Control is being accentuated because of his past. Let him put the baggage down. We just might have something here.

The problem is 15 good innings in March doesn't make up for the 860+ professional innings he has logged which clearly show he has "control" issues.

Wow.
The Miracle on Ice is near the top, or at the top of every single list of greatest sports moments in history.
For someone to think that the DR winning the WBC is even close to that level is pretty short sighted, IMO.

If you are the DR, I'd say this is more important than the miracle on ice.....heck, if you are a lot of the rest of the world it probably is.

Originally Posted by Mr. Brooks

Wow.
The Miracle on Ice is near the top, or at the top of every single list of greatest sports moments in history.
For someone to think that the DR winning the WBC is even close to that level is pretty short sighted, IMO.

Wow. Time to think a little more globally Mr.(Herb?) Brooks? I sincerely doubt that there is even one "someone" in the DR who either, has ever heard of the miracle on ice, or if they did, cares one fig about it.

Originally Posted by mike wants wins

If you are the DR, I'd say this is more important than the miracle on ice.....heck, if you are a lot of the rest of the world it probably is.

The DR is supposed to win!
I would equate this with the Dream Team from basketball.
Everyone was happy and excite to see a bunch of great players win when they should have won. But its nowhere near the level of the Miracle on Ice. There is a reason the MOI is still remembered 30+ years later. You can say "Miracle on Ice" to just about anyone on the street, and they will know what you are talking about.
I would be shocked if 30 years from now, people of the DR are still talking about winning the 2013 WBC.
The Miracle on Ice is not just about winning a hockey tournament.
It was about a bunch of rag tag guys who were thrown together, barely had any time to play together, and were not given any chance of winning, beating a powerhouse team who had lived, trained, and played together for years.
It was also political. A huge part of the legend of the MOI is the cold war aspect to it. This WBC win for the DR just doesnt have any of those additional elements.
I'm sure its great for the people of that country. I'm sure they will party and celebrate and be proud. But in the end its a baseball tournament, with no external ramifications, that they should have won, and 30 years from now it will hardly be mentioned, if at all.

Originally Posted by jokin

Wow. Time to think a little more globally Mr.(Herb?) Brooks? I sincerely doubt that there is even one "someone" in the DR who either, has ever heard of the miracle on ice, or if they did, cares one fig about it.

Right, this little thing called the Cold War was not global at all. Silly me.

Originally Posted by Mr. Brooks

Right, this little thing called the Cold War was not global at all. Silly me.

Oh yeah, the two superpowers blustering at each other and messing around with every little country to gain "influence". Of course, our meddling in the Dominican affairs began way before the actual Cold War. We occupied the country from 1916-1924- the DR citizens had such a soft spot for the US from that naked agression, they began a guerilla war that simmered off and on well throughout much of the 20th Century. Of course, when the initial guerilla war was finally repelled, the US government installed military strongman and former convicted thief, forger and pimp, Rafael Trajillo in as president as the result of a rigged election. At the time the US State Department warned that "Trujillo is a kind of Frankenstein, brought to life by the US Marines" and likely to spawn new insurrections. Through America's maintainence of the control of all customs duties and trade for the country and an amazing ability to "look the other way"- "Trujillo's political corruption, military muscle, torture, murder, nepotism, commercial monopolies and raids on the country's national treasury enabled Trujillo to quiet his opponents and amass a fortune of $800 million." The "beloved" President-for-Life (or as long as the US supported him) Trujillo was finally assassinated in 1961, causing yet more domestic instability, resulting in the next US invasion and occupation of the country in 1965-66, ultimately leading to the installation of another former Trujillo puppet and anti-democratic strongman, Joaquin Balager, who ruthlessly ruled the country into the late 1980s.


So yeah, I'd say the handful of people of the DR who had any awareness of Olympic hockey (no cable TV on the island in 1980) either didn't care or were less than inclined to wave the American flag and shout "USA" in the streets of Santo Domingo.

I'm sure its great for the people of that country. I'm sure they will party and celebrate and be proud. But in the end its a baseball tournament, with no external ramifications, that they should have won, and 30 years from now it will hardly be mentioned, if at all.

And people wonder why the image of "The Ugly American" still regins supreme around the globe. Not too condescending, are we?

Originally Posted by jokin

And people wonder why the image of "The Ugly American" still regins supreme around the globe. Not too condescending, are we?

Really? The hate against Americans has to do with belittling a baseball tournament in which the top players for each country don't even play? This isn't the FIFA World Cup. This tournament is in it's infancy and will hopefully keep growing. The USA vs. USSR Semifinal was much more of a global and significant event. They are incomparable in their magnitude on history, denying this is naive.

I'm sure the people of the Dominicana are extremely proud of it, and they should be. It was a great tournament and a testament to their success in baseball. Lets not take anything away from them by not putting this tournament on the same level.

Hopefully this tournament gains popularity globally and can be put in the same sentence. Right now, as evidence by participating teams and results, the Americas and Japan dominate baseball. The Netherlands, Italy, and Korea have all had positive presence in the WBC so far. Hopefully this leads to more interest in baseball from other countries. Europe has been slow to embrace baseball. Partially, I'm glad the USA isn't winning this tournament consistently (or ever lol). To me, it provides more motivation to other countries to get involved.

spiritofvodka, I dont think I contradicted myself, my opinion of Hendriks hasnt changed..with Deduno if he is in the rotation or pen doesnt matter to me , I just believe he offers something to the team & I honestly think Hendriks offers nothing..

Originally Posted by jokin

And people wonder why the image of "The Ugly American" still regins supreme around the globe. Not too condescending, are we?

I read the post you quoted 5 times and I still don't see how you say that in response to his post. And this is coming from a guy who has been all over the world and had to break down that stereotype.

Originally Posted by Badsmerf

Really? The hate against Americans has to do with belittling a baseball tournament in which the top players for each country don't even play? This isn't the FIFA World Cup. This tournament is in it's infancy and will hopefully keep growing. The USA vs. USSR Semifinal was much more of a global and significant event. They are incomparable in their magnitude on history, denying this is naive.

I'm sure the people of the Dominicana are extremely proud of it, and they should be. It was a great tournament and a testament to their success in baseball. Lets not take anything away from them by not putting this tournament on the same level.

Hopefully this tournament gains popularity globally and can be put in the same sentence. Right now, as evidence by participating teams and results, the Americas and Japan dominate baseball. The Netherlands, Italy, and Korea have all had positive presence in the WBC so far. Hopefully this leads to more interest in baseball from other countries. Europe has been slow to embrace baseball. Partially, I'm glad the USA isn't winning this tournament consistently (or ever lol). To me, it provides more motivation to other countries to get involved.

Smerf, I never said that the Olympic win wasn't important to the US. I've never "denied" anything of the sort. I did say that it most certainly wasn't particularly important whatsover to the citizens of the DR. There's a reason that most of the geographical world was/is called "Third" or Non-Aligned- they generally didn't care who happened to win a Winter Olympic event. And in a country like the DR, with such a tortured relationship with the US, it's likely the few average citizens that did care would support anyone, except the US.

You can put any tournament, in any sport, at any level you want and ascribe it the "importance" you deem obvious to us in the First World, and it won't make a bit of difference to the Dominicans, who just might be presumptuos enough to ascribe their own sense of importance to the things that they actually value. The country is baseball-centric and baseball-crazy. "Ice" is truly an alien concept in a country that has average high temps in the 80s all year round and average lows in the low 70s and high 60s.

This thread derailment has obscured my initial point and dovetails nicely with your post, Smerf. I merely said that the Twins are in a good position to garner some goodwill in the Dominican victorious afterglow, after accomplishing something unprecedented and important to them in their history- just not our history. Maybe it won't be a fond memory to them in 30 years, but that was hardly the point.

Originally Posted by ThePuck

I read the post you quoted 5 times and I still don't see how you say that in response to his post. And this is coming from a guy who has been all over the world and had to break down that stereotype.

Because he dealt with the subject matter entirely from the US point of view and verbally patted the Domincans on the head? This is a tiny, impoverished country and we are telling them how they should feel about the victory they committed to for the last 4 years after their WBC humiliation in 2009? The tone taken is much akin to the imperialistic tone taken towards the country in the 20th Century.

A lot of this Deduno talk was also said about Blackburn in 2009 at the all-star break. He had a 3.00 ERA and possessed this magical ability to induce weak contact. Of course he didn't have the ability to actually miss bats. He had also shut down a few teams at 'clutch' times and was regarded by some as a big game pitcher. He will get his chance this season because the other options suck also and I think he makes a great story but I have no expectations of success from him.

Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave

Also to be honest, DeDuno and Hendriks are both going to get plenty of chances this year...

Yup. Settle down people. These things have a way of working themselves out. Truth be told, I'm not real optimistic that either will be a long term asset to the rotation, but both will have the opportunity to prove me wrong over the course of the coming season.

Originally Posted by jokin

Because he dealt with the subject matter entirely from the US point of view and verbally patted the Domincans on the head?

Yeah, I didn't get that vibe from the part he wrote and you quoted.

Deduno is a lot of fun to watch. For that reason, I want him to make the rotation.

Hendriks has moved fast through the org and has shown an ability to figure out how to succeed at each level along the way. At age 23, he's certainly not struggled long enough for me to give up hope that he'll figure out how to succeed in the majors. For that reason, I want to watch him pitch this year and am confident he will. Even he gets the ball rolling at AAA and comes up to replace DeCorrewaltfrey. Or maybe even Deduno.

There seems to be a lot of arguing one vs. the other in this thread. These are two very different pieces. We're trying to compare an apple with a taco salad.

Um, just to be clear I wasnt claiming that the Miracle on Ice would be more remembered in the DR than this WBC win. Obviously that wouldnt be the case.
I was saying the MOI is more remembered HERE, than this WBC win will be remembered there, 30+ years from now.

And yeah, I'm sure the reason the world hates America is because I dont think this win will be remembered as universally to them, as the MOI is to us. What an evil person I am, for having that opinion.