Thread: Reusse: Always are Angry Twins Followers

None of the above.

1. I'm not in number 1. I would never be naive enough to think the Twins should jack the payroll up 40 Million Dollars to go from 67 Wins to 75 Wins. I also realize the Twins would never make up this type of revenue spent. I have sympathy for those who question moves like the Kevin Correria signing as not the best use of resources.
2. I have the most sympathy for position 2. I'm not Anti-Ryan. I would be open to arguments that the his past track-record is somewhat overrated due to a weak division along with the idea they have the same front office that led to our recent starting pitching debacles. Playoff Records are Small-Sample Size Galore.
3. Is Gardy a Joe Maddon like strategist? No-but he seems to keep the clubhouse together. I think it's silly to assume he's a radically different manager when they win 96 games versus 66 games.
4. These people are the most annoying. Mauer's durability up until 2011 was quite good. He led the league in OBP in 2012. He's projected by BBP to lead it again in 2013. I'll say again "If you don't resign a beloved hometown player with a potential Hall of Fame career ahead of him then it's time to shut down Baseball in Minnesota". Even if Mauer gives you 2 WARP the rest of the contract- the Twins had no other options.

Strange thing is, Reusse has always been Mr. Negative. It's funny HE comes out complaining about fans' negativity.

Originally Posted by ThePuck

Strange thing is, Reusse has always been Mr. Negative. It's funny HE comes out complaining about fans' negativity.

He's been losing weight ever since Dark Star died. Might be he has a whole new rosy outlook on life now.

Originally Posted by ThePuck

Strange thing is, Reusse has always been Mr. Negative. It's funny HE comes out complaining about fans' negativity.

You know, I'd actually disagree with this. Reusse has always been a baseball guy first and foremost. I remember reading some of his columns in the 90s and he was trying to talk himself into Matt Walbeck and Rich Becker and he'd often write about how wonderful it would be if the Twins had a Camden yards of their own. He's pretty plugged into the Twins and has stood up to defend Mauer multiple times. He's not afraid to criticize of course but I think he's always been less negative toward the Twins than the other local teams when he writes.

Originally Posted by gunnarthor

You know, I'd actually disagree with this. Reusse has always been a baseball guy first and foremost. I remember reading some of his columns in the 90s and he was trying to talk himself into Matt Walbeck and Rich Becker and he'd often write about how wonderful it would be if the Twins had a Camden yards of their own. He's pretty plugged into the Twins and has stood up to defend Mauer multiple times. He's not afraid to criticize of course but I think he's always been less negative toward the Twins than the other local teams when he writes.

Bert tore him a new one on Twitter as being extremely negative after Reusse said the Vikings announcers are so homerish they'd fit right in on FSN.

“@1500ESPN_Reusse Very interesting that a guy like you can consistently criticize others when you played what sport? You are Mr. Negative!”
“@1500ESPN_Reusse For years you have been a writer that always looks for the negative. Keep up the good work because you are good at it!”
“@1500ESPN_Reusse I believe weather baseball, football or whatever sport, fans want to hear positive. The ones that don’t, listen to YOU!”

Originally Posted by Riverbrian

I've never really liked the uniforms. Can that be a category?

Agree somewhat in that l don't like the ones they wore for the their championship seasons. I have never liked the lower case m hats and have never owned one. I was happy to see them bring back the TC logo. The new road uniforms are fine and a significant upgrade to the gray with pinstripes. I really wish they would make the Saturday throwbacks their full-time home uniforms. They could then use the old powder-blues as an alternate (just kidding).

As for the article, I guess I'm bummed about the payroll but I believe that falls on ownership. I have absolute trust in Ryan and Gardy to turn the team around and I've always liked following the minor leagues so I'm happy to watch a rebuild. Last year's adopt a prospect thing was fun and Hicks (my prospect!) turned out to have a great year. So I guess I'm usually pretty optimistic about the team.

Originally Posted by ThePuck

Bert tore him a new one on Twitter as being extremely negative after Reusse said the Vikings announcers are so homerish they'd fit right in on FSN.

Yeah I remember something about that. Bert also plucked him with a baseball back in the day. I'm not saying Reusse is a Twins cheerleader or apologist but he usually seems fair in his assessments and (in general) tries to see a good path forward.

I don't think angry is the right word for me. Disappointed and annoyed. If I didn't care, as USAChief points out, that would be worse....and I'm bordering on that this year. They all have the right to run their business the way they want, but I also have the right to completely disagree if I want. For example, if they don't want to have a competitive payroll, that is their business. But then they should pay extra taxes to pay back the taxpayers of Hennepin county. They can choose their payroll, but if it is below baseball inflation adusted dome days, they should pay us back. Their choice, their business. But, the taxes are not my choice, I have to pay them while they pocket the money. I guess I am perplexed anyone is NOT annoyed by that.

Feel free to run the Twins they way you want, but if you are going to say publicly you will be active in pursuing pitchers, don't expect people to sing Halleluia at this offseason. Would it be better for them if I said nothing, and did not care? I don't think so.

Originally Posted by gunnarthor

Yeah I remember something about that. Bert also plucked him with a baseball back in the day. I'm not saying Reusse is a Twins cheerleader or apologist but he usually seems fair in his assessments and (in general) tries to see a good path forward.

I edited my post above to give you quotes :-)

Reusse wants to keep his spot in the front of the Twins press box buffett line.
Maybe Patrick and Souhan can co-author a book on the proper etiquette of being a real Twins fan. Never a negative word from those two.

Originally Posted by ThePuck

Strange thing is, Reusse has always been Mr. Negative. It's funny HE comes out complaining about fans' negativity.

He seems more like a contrarian, which makes this even funnier. Whichever way the stream is flowing, Reusse will be fighting the current.

That might seem admirable to some, but I wonder if it's any different than parroting the mob mentality. Either way, you don't really get to choose the side. This one is just more work. (With a payoff of more attention.)

It is interesting that this same story was not written in 2010. Because that's the time when you could really tell who the haters that fell into each of these categories were. If, during a 95 win season, and after six postseason appearances in the last decade, you can still grump about one of these four things, you might be a little unhinged.

But right now, it's the exact opposite:

If, after two 90+ loss seasons, plus being on the verge of another, plus a $30+ million payroll decrease over the last two years, plus an offseason where the biggest free agent signing is almost universally panned, AND finally not looking at a truly competitive team for at least a couple more years....if after all that, you feel the need to look at a fan base that is pessimistic and describe them as "haters"....then you might be the one who is a little unhinged.

Great post John....

Originally Posted by John Bonnes

He seems more like a contrarian, which makes this even funnier. Whichever way the stream is flowing, Reusse will be fighting the current.

That might seem admirable to some, but I wonder if it's any different than parroting the mob mentality. Either way, you don't really get to choose the side. This one is just more work. (With a payoff of more attention.)

It is interesting that this same story was not written in 2010. Because that's the time when you could really tell who the haters that fell into each of these categories were. If, during a 95 win season, and after six postseason appearances in the last decade, you can still grump about one of these four things, you might be a little unhinged.

But right now, it's the exact opposite:

If, after two 90+ loss seasons, plus being on the verge of another, plus a $30+ million payroll decrease over the last two years, plus an offseason where the biggest free agent signing is almost universally panned, AND finally not looking at a truly competitive team for at least a couple more years....if after all that, you feel the need to look at a fan base that is pessimistic and describe them as "haters"....then you might be the one who is a little unhinged.

Nice post!

Originally Posted by cmathewson

For example, Aaron Hicks. We've had a long and ugly discussion about him in several places on this board. But only one poster had the courage to show her enthusiasm at what she sees: a star in the making--a quieter, switch hitting Torii Hunter with patience. The moment she posted it, there were a bunch of haters saying a) The Twins would be idiots to keep him in April because of salary and team control issues down the road b) he's not ready because he strikes out to much or whatever, c) he's had a couple of bad years in the minors so he's obviously not as good as the experts claim, or d) unlike all you optimists, I saw him play once and he went 0-4 with three strikeouts.

Virtually nobody on this board is down on Hicks. A few (myself included, though I'm not adamant on the subject) want to see him get a little time in Rochester. We don't predict doom-and-gloom for the guy... In fact, it's the exact opposite. We're excited to see him play but want to make sure he's ready for the big leagues before tossing him into the fire and think that managing his clock at the same time is a good idea.

If we were all down on him and didn't think he was deserving of his top 100 prospect status, why would we care about his service clock?

Yet somehow, restrained excitement = Negative Nelly while a poster's positive-yet-not-based-on-anything-more-than-position-comp is "courageous".

Originally Posted by John Bonnes

If, after two 90+ loss seasons, plus being on the verge of another, plus a $30+ million payroll decrease over the last two years, plus an offseason where the biggest free agent signing is almost universally panned, AND finally not looking at a truly competitive team for at least a couple more years....if after all that, you feel the need to look at a fan base that is pessimistic and describe them as "haters"....then you might be the one who is a little unhinged.

Come on, John, you're better than that. I think the 'haters' are the people that are unrealistic fans who just want to bitch. No one is happy about the losing but unless you're the Yankees you can't be up forever. The team plummeted to the bottom but they already have one of the top farm systems in baseball and a GM with a track record of fixing things. It's not like the Twins are becoming the Pirates or Royals. They'll have a few down years - although this is probably going to be the worst one - and cycle back up. Not sure we need to hate on Ryan or Gardy for that.

Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp

Virtually nobody on this board is down on Hicks. A few (myself included, though I'm not adamant on the subject) want to see him get a little time in Rochester. We don't predict doom-and-gloom for the guy... In fact, it's the exact opposite. We're excited to see him play but want to make sure he's ready for the big leagues before tossing him into the fire and think that managing his clock at the same time is a good idea.

If we were all down on him and didn't think he was deserving of his top 100 prospect status, why would we care about his service clock?

Yet somehow, restrained excitement = Negative Nelly while a poster's positive-yet-not-based-on-anything-more-than-position-comp is "courageous".

Thanks for this post. That's my perspective on Hicks, too, not to mention what also frustrates me about posts like cmathewson's where honest analysis/criticism is taken as such a negative. People on this board who are critical of some of the team's moves don't follow the team and just read fangraphs? Ridiculous.

As for Reusse's article, it takes the same tact, arguing to a perspective that is on the fringes. Most people don't fall into those categories at all. I would say that there are parts of 1-3 that are true, but that there are incredibly few people who actually fall into those categories.

One other thing I think Reusse missed in his article is that not only is it easier to be heard via social media. It's also easier to get information. This allows people to be more aware of what other perspectives are out there besides the information the Twins are feeding the news reporters. A great example of this is the perspective we saw last season from media outlets and the Twins on players like Dozier (I think he was called the Next Big Thing) and Marquis (called a "control" pitcher with similar BB/9 to Liriano). Most people looking and listening beyond what the Twins predicted (perhaps we even looked at some statistics on fangraphs!) that their transitions would not go well.

Originally Posted by cmathewson

I think this board and the Strib board are not representative of the heart of Twins fans. More like fringe groups on either end of one rug.

The Strib board haters don't pay close attention to the team, but they have their "big money" hatred. If the team gets a new stadium, they should win it all every year. Anything less is a crime against the taxpayers. And Mauer is the chief perpetrator.

The other fringe, which I see on this board quite a bit, are people who don't pay close attention to the team, but think they can get everything they need to know from Fangraphs. They ignore trends and improvement, and find whatever negative stat they can to show how player X will suck this year. Then they multiply it out over the whole team and a 65-win team is born.

Unfortunately, we have the silent majority that makes up most of the rug, those who are routinely called cool-aid drinkers on this board. Folks like you and me are naturally optimistic, want to root for the team and not against it, and look for reasons to be optimistic.

For example, Aaron Hicks. We've had a long and ugly discussion about him in several places on this board. But only one poster had the courage to show her enthusiasm at what she sees: a star in the making--a quieter, switch hitting Torii Hunter with patience. The moment she posted it, there were a bunch of haters saying a) The Twins would be idiots to keep him in April because of salary and team control issues down the road b) he's not ready because he strikes out to much or whatever, c) he's had a couple of bad years in the minors so he's obviously not as good as the experts claim, or d) unlike all you optimists, I saw him play once and he went 0-4 with three strikeouts.

All the haters miss a crucial fact: The other candidates are either not ready (Benson) or not regulars (Mastroiani). So let's just accept the fact that he's the best player available right now and will likely win the job. And why not get excited about a BA top 100 prospect entering his rookie season? What is wrong with enjoying the thought of that?

The haters equate being negative to being critical. And somehow, if you're not critical, you're an idiot. News flash, you can be critical and still be positive. You can say Hicks has work to do on his outfield throws and still say he's an exciting player. You can pick apart his game and still say he's as good as Span right now and has much higher upside. That's the fun of being a fan. No player is perfect. All players fail two thirds of the time. But are they good enough to help the team win over the long season? If so, and you can provide good reasons why, stating them doesn't make you an idiot. It makes you smarter than the haters who paint in black and white, and mostly black.

Thank for so eloquently stating what happens on this board so often. This team has sucked for two years. It happens in the cycle of baseball franchises. Our owners are not willing to spend huge amounts of cash that they have and that is their decision. Mistakes were made by members of the front office and those were soundly bashed and beaten to death. I would add that people will not let go of mistakes made and move on. I have season tickets and fully realize that they will probably not have a good record this year. I am excited to see some of the talent for the future and enjoy outdoor baseball. I enjoy reading the statheads comments and appreciate their effort to understand the players abilities and flaws. I don't have the time to look at those things but realize that they are part of the game. The bitterness posted by some is unfortunate but I tend to skip through those posts and move on to those I feel contribute to the forum.

There's always angry fans of every team. This is not unique to the Twins. I don't understand Reusse's point.