Thread: Reusse: Put Duensing In The Pen And Leave Him There

Originally Posted by stringer bell

I probably regard "handedness" more than most and hence I have held out hope for Duensing as a starter longer than most. He was okay or better as a starter until 2011 IIRC. I have finally given up on the prospect of BD being a regular starter. However, stretching him out might be needed with the number of suspects in the rotation. They will need a long man perhaps most often of all teams in the big leagues and several of those games could be had if they get capable long relief in lineups most likely stacked with LH hitters. With either zero or one LH starter (Diamond when he's ready), it would be good to have at least three lefties in the 'pen, one of whom (Duensing) who can go three or more innings routinely.

I don't agree at all. Duensing is used best against lefties and has no business pitching more than inning or so in the role of a lefty specialist.

Originally Posted by gunnarthor

I'm not sure this answers your question but a few years ago, the Twins had Liriano pitching in front of Santana for a few weeks but changed it up b/c the Rangers hit Santana pretty hard after facing Liriano the night before. The Twins thought that Liriano gave the Rangers a good look for how Santana would pitch them so split them up.

I understand the fear. I am dubious that there's any truth to it. I haven't been able to find anything on the interwebs that tests the hypothesis of a primer effect when there are multiple same-handed SPs in a rotation pitching back to back.

Originally Posted by Shane Wahl

I don't agree at all. Duensing is used best against lefties and has no business pitching more than inning or so in the role of a lefty specialist.

If he's facing a lineup with 6-7 LH hitters, he could/would do just fine, I think. I think making Duensing into a specialist is the waste of a versatile arm.

Originally Posted by stringer bell

If he's facing a lineup with 6-7 LH hitters, he could/would do just fine, I think.

So it's your assertion that a pitcher who excels against left-handed hitters, would in fact do well against a lineup stacked with left-handed hitters?


Hell of a limb you're heading out on there.

Every time I hear talk of using Duensing as a starter again, something like this comes to mind:

MLB - Detroit Tigers/Minnesota Twins Box Score Tuesday August 14, 2012 - Yahoo! Sports

Opposing lineup gets stacked with as many right hand bats as possible. Oh yeah, and that Fielder guy.

Some of us were saying this in spring training 2011.

Just sayin.

I find it disconcerting this is still a question....he is a good reliever, and a bad starter. How is this up for debate?

Originally Posted by snepp

So it's your assertion that a pitcher who excels against left-handed hitters, would in fact do well against a lineup stacked with left-handed hitters?


Hell of a limb you're heading out on there.

He also seems to be asserting that a guy who only does well against LH hitters is "wasted" as a "specialist."

Let's see if I can clarify. I have abandoned the Duensing in the rotation bus, probably later than most. The Twins figure to have either four or five righthanded starters depending on Diamond's health. It figures that there will be short starts from the starters early in the year because of health concerns and ineffectiveness. Having a lefty like Duensing, who has been in the role, available to go multiple innings against lineups that might have maxed out on their lefthanded hitters makes sense to me. While Duensing hasn't done well against RH hitters, I don't think he should be relegated to LOOGy just yet.

Originally Posted by stringer bell

Let's see if I can clarify. I have abandoned the Duensing in the rotation bus, probably later than most. The Twins figure to have either four or five righthanded starters depending on Diamond's health. It figures that there will be short starts from the starters early in the year because of health concerns and ineffectiveness. Having a lefty like Duensing, who has been in the role, available to go multiple innings against lineups that might have maxed out on their lefthanded hitters makes sense to me. While Duensing hasn't done well against RH hitters, I don't think he should be relegated to LOOGy just yet.

Do you know what "starting" pitcher means?

Originally Posted by stringer bell

If he's facing a lineup with 6-7 LH hitters, he could/would do just fine, I think. I think making Duensing into a specialist is the waste of a versatile arm.

Except that no team in their right mind would put that many lefties into the lineup against Duensing. It's not as if the starting pitcher is carried to the mound in a covered litter and unveiled mere moments before the first pitch is thrown. The opposing team knows who they're facing.

Originally Posted by FrodaddyG

Do you know what "starting" pitcher means?

It seems to me that what stringer bell is trying to sayis that, if you keep Duensing stretched to go more than one inning you could use him as a long reliever against a line-up that was prepared to face a righty.

Originally Posted by Willihammer

I understand the fear. I am dubious that there's any truth to it. I haven't been able to find anything on the interwebs that tests the hypothesis of a primer effect when there are multiple same-handed SPs in a rotation pitching back to back.

I don't think it had as much to do with same handiness as with 1) similar size/release point and 2) similar stuff. In 06, both pitchers were mostly fastball, slider, changeup guys with Liriano just a tick harder (God, I so wish he had become the pitcher we expected).

I have no idea how much getting 3 at bats against Liriano would help the next night against Santana. I suspect the attack plan for both pitchers was similar as well - get ahead with the fastball, kill with offspeed. etc etc. On the hitting side of it, Morneau has repeatedly said that hitting right behind Mauer allowed him, in the on deck circle, see how the pitcher pitched Mauer and he expected to be pitched similarly. He said it really helped him with LH pitching.

Originally Posted by adjacent

It seems to me that what stringer bell is trying to sayis that, if you keep Duensing stretched to go more than one inning you could use him as a long reliever against a line-up that was prepared to face a righty.

Right, if its the bottom of 7 and the Yankees are putting up Gardner, Ichiro, Nix/Jeter, Cano, Teixeira, and Granderson, you let Duensing go as long as he can even though Nix is righthanded and Tex will switch over also. Seems clear enough to me.

Originally Posted by gunnarthor

He said it really helped him with LH pitching.

Again, there would seem to be a disconnect between what these guys believe and the results.

I am open to the possibility that L-R-L-R is preferable but nobody seems to have any evidence besides anecdotes.

Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp

Except that no team in their right mind would put that many lefties into the lineup against Duensing. It's not as if the starting pitcher is carried to the mound in a covered litter and unveiled mere moments before the first pitch is thrown. The opposing team knows who they're facing.

I guess I'm still being misunderstood. I am saying that Duensing shouldn't be limited to being a LOOGy. I think he is a reliever, but capable of going 2+ innings on occasion. I am thinking that the Twins will have several short starts and BD should be available as a reliever to pitch long relief.

The occasions where it's OK to use duensing for multiple innings are: the Twins are way behind, the Twins are way ahead, the bullpen has been way overstressed and someone has to "bite the bullet" and allow some rest to the group.

Duensing is best suited as a lefty specialist. Unless he does differently this season, we can figure that will be his role, get a lefty out or face a righty that is inbetween 2 or 3 lefties. That puts him into a 7th or 8th inning role. Any talk of him being a starter is a waste.

Originally Posted by adjacent

It seems to me that what stringer bell is trying to sayis that, if you keep Duensing stretched to go more than one inning you could use him as a long reliever against a line-up that was prepared to face a righty.

It's not unimportant. But if a lefty is facing a lineup prepared to face a righty, chances are the team is down by several runs already. You don't want too many of those "opportunities" or your season is lost; and if you don't have many of those then the choice of who does this pitching is fairly low down on Ryan's honey-do list for Gardenhire in a given season.

Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp

It's not as if the starting pitcher is carried to the mound in a covered litter and unveiled mere moments before the first pitch is thrown.

Oh my GOSH, but it totally should be like that! Although I'm picturing instead of a litter, something like a magician at an old-time carnival would use (or Gob's Aztec Tomb from "Arrested Development" for those who like newer references). And a lot of fanfare associated with the big reveal!!! This might be the best idea since Disco Demolition Night!