Thread: Dozier vs. Rosario

Originally Posted by Gene Larkin Fan Club

Evidently, it's difficult for some to understand the importance of development at the proper pace. If someone is moved too quickly, it can shatter confidence and hinder development. I think this why the Mike Trouts of the world are so rare. Very few are capable of making the leap that quickly...or do you believe that Eddie Rosario is at Trout's level? I wish that were so, but I'm guessing he is not. The Twins are not the only organization that develops players at a deliberate pace.

Again...No. I do not believe Rosario is near the level of Mike Trout. OK...everyone please.....

With a different organization, Eddie may have remained an outfielder. Maybe his hypothetical organization has a need in CF? If so, He would have been pushed a little faster than spending two years in rookie ball and another in low-A. Again, as an outfielder, he could have breezed up to AA by now with the offensive skills he possesses. If he would have tore up AA last year, he would be a realistic possibility with an MLB club to start 2013.

BUT....since he is converting to 2B to fill a need with MN...he will take much longer to get to the big leagues. 24-yr-old rookie probably. Whereas he could have easily been 23-or-younger-rookie with the perfect fit of an organization. Maybe he gets a Sept call-up for his 22nd birthday in the event of broken legs to Hicks, Mastro, and Benson? We would need a CF that can hit.

I think a series of question marks about Eddie is this: What if he had not been struck in the face? Would he have played in A+ last year? How much? Would that experience have accelerated his timetable a bit? How much? How much does his performance in the winter leagues and WBC affect his standing with Terry Ryan and staff?

Originally Posted by mnfanforlife

Again...No. I do not believe Rosario is near the level of Mike Trout. OK...everyone please.....

With a different organization, Eddie may have remained an outfielder. Maybe his hypothetical organization has a need in CF? If so, He would have been pushed a little faster than spending two years in rookie ball and another in low-A. Again, as an outfielder, he could have breezed up to AA by now with the offensive skills he possesses. If he would have tore up AA last year, he would be a realistic possibility with an MLB club to start 2013.

BUT....since he is converting to 2B to fill a need with MN...he will take much longer to get to the big leagues. 24-yr-old rookie probably. Whereas he could have easily been 23-or-younger-rookie with the perfect fit of an organization. Maybe he gets a Sept call-up for his 22nd birthday in the event of broken legs to Hicks, Mastro, and Benson? We would need a CF that can hit.

There are a lot of hypothetical "ifs" in that statement. The switch to 2nd was great if for no other reason than that 2nd is a postion of need in this org where CF is clearly not. Even if he hadn't switched, he's been moving up the ranks 1 level per year, which is a pretty normal pace. Staying in center would not have changed that.

Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan

There are a lot of hypothetical "ifs" in that statement. The switch to 2nd was great if for no other reason than that 2nd is a postion of need in this org where CF is clearly not. Even if he hadn't switched, he's been moving up the ranks 1 level per year, which is a pretty normal pace. Staying in center would not have changed that.

I know. There are a lot of "IF's" in life. And these points you've made are debatable topics.

I wonder if Rosario can hit A+ pitching? Yes, he will. And next year, I wonder if Rosario can still hit in AA? Yes, he will. And the year after that, can Rosario still hit? Yes, he will still be able to hit the crap out of his peers. But, but, but, its an entire level-per-year he will be advancing, YIKES! Yes, it is. Don't be scared. I'm sure Eddie is not. Maybe Eddie envisions multiple level advancement for himself in 2013? Would you tell him, "that's not possible! You're too inexperienced on defense!"

I mean really...if Eddie hits like O.Arcia did in A+ and AA ...what would be stopping him from skipping AAA and taking over 2B in Minnesota?

His defense should be ready to go by 2014 since he has no doubt been working on things at 2B for at least 12 months now....with professional coaches and instructors...he's smart...he will learn fast. Give him the wings people.

Originally Posted by mnfanforlife

With a different organization, Eddie may have remained an outfielder. Maybe his hypothetical organization has a need in CF? If so, He would have been pushed a little faster than spending two years in rookie ball and another in low-A. Again, as an outfielder, he could have breezed up to AA by now with the offensive skills he possesses. If he would have tore up AA last year, he would be a realistic possibility with an MLB club to start 2013.

I think you are wildly overrating Rosario's offensive game. He has a chance to be an impact player in the majors someday but he's not particularly close to being an elite prospect. In no organization would he be near the majors right now.

Originally Posted by Nick Nelson

In no organization would he be near the majors right now.

Maybe in 3 organizations: The Marlins, the Astros and the Metropolitans, esp the last...

Originally Posted by Nick Nelson

I think you are wildly overrating Rosario's offensive game. He has a chance to be an impact player in the majors someday but he's not particularly close to being an elite prospect. In no organization would he be near the majors right now.

Can't you see how that is debatable? How is he not elite if he is the #6 prospect in all of the minor leagues at 2B? (by MLB.com) How am I "wildly over-rating" his offense when its clear hitting is his strength?

Your opinion should be noted, but not passed as absolute.

Originally Posted by mnfanforlife

Can't you see how that is debatable? How is he not elite if he is the #6 prospect in all of the minor leagues at 2B? (by MLB.com) How am I "wildly over-rating" his offense when its clear hitting is his strength?

Your opinion should be noted, but not passed as absolute.

The same MLB.com that didn't have him ranked among their top 100 prospects?

He's a nice player and I'm not trying to bash him, but under no definition of the word "elite" would Rosario qualify. He's not on the top 100 lists for MLB.com nor BA. Most don't have him ranked as even a top 5 prospect in the Twins system. Being rated as the sixth-best in the minors at a thin position isn't quite the feat you're making it out to be.

He's a very intriguing prospect with plenty of promise, but he's not the kind of guy who gains consideration -- in any organization -- for an MLB job at age 21 with under 250 games of pro experience.

Originally Posted by mnfanforlife

How much does his performance in the winter leagues and WBC affect his standing with Terry Ryan and staff?

Little to none. They liked him a lot the last 2-3 years, and they like him a lot now.

Originally Posted by Nick Nelson

The same MLB.com that didn't have him ranked among their top 100 prospects?

He's a nice player and I'm not trying to bash him, but under no definition of the word "elite" would Rosario qualify. He's not on the top 100 lists for MLB.com nor BA. Most don't have him ranked as even a top 5 prospect in the Twins system. Being rated as the sixth-best in the minors at a thin position isn't quite the feat you're making it out to be.

He's a very intriguing prospect with plenty of promise, but he's not the kind of guy who gains consideration -- in any organization -- for an MLB job at age 21 with under 250 games of pro experience.

To be fair, he was Keith Law's top 2B. To be more fair, surely several current SS and 3B prospects will end up at 2B. To be super fair, I'm guessing most rankings left him off because they were concerned about the glove not the bat, or they thought it would be in poor taste to claim seven top prospects for one team. To be extra fair, he's never played above low A ball, he hasn't come anywhere close to desreving a Twins uniform with a number that doesn't start with a 9.

Originally Posted by mnfanforlife

Can't you see how that is debatable? How is he not elite if he is the #6 prospect in all of the minor leagues at 2B? (by MLB.com) How am I "wildly over-rating" his offense when its clear hitting is his strength?

Your opinion should be noted, but not passed as absolute.

As Nick said, Rosario wasn't a Top 100 by MLB.com. He also wasn't Top 100 by Baseball America or Top 101 by Baseball Prospectus. So, right now, he's not an "elite" prospect...

If you want to go local, out friend Aaron Gleeman continues to say that Kyle Gibson wasn't an elite prospect before his Tommy John surgery even though he was ranked #35 by Baseball America at the beginning of that season.

Now, I personally think that he should have ranked closer to where Keith Law had him (which I believe was around 65), and I do believe there is a chance that he could be the Twins starting 2B by June of 2014.

Also, remember, he was the Twins 4th round pick, so yes, he went to the GCL and did OK. He then spent the next year at Elizabethton where he put up great numbers with Sano. He then played well at Beloit while learning a new position. The Twins always keep their young players in the Midwest League for the full year, including one Joe Mauer who advanced quite quickly the following season. So, the Twins have moved him up appropriately so far, and I think he can and will move up quickly in 2013. It's also normal for them to promoted several players right after the Florida State League All Star game in June.

Let's see how he does... I'm excited about him, but I've been following prospects for long enough to know that nothing can be assumed about any of them, and they'll get their promotions when they should.

Originally Posted by nicksaviking

To be more fair, surely several current SS and 3B prospects will end up at 2B. .

Kind of a detail, but not too many 3B prospects end up at 2B. Some end up at 1B or OF corners or DH. That's that.

Originally Posted by Seth Stohs

As Nick said, Rosario wasn't a Top 100 by MLB.com. He also wasn't Top 100 by Baseball America or Top 101 by Baseball Prospectus. So, right now, he's not an "elite" prospect...

If you want to go local, out friend Aaron Gleeman continues to say that Kyle Gibson wasn't an elite prospect before his Tommy John surgery even though he was ranked #35 by Baseball America at the beginning of that season.

Now, I personally think that he should have ranked closer to where Keith Law had him (which I believe was around 65), and I do believe there is a chance that he could be the Twins starting 2B by June of 2014.

Also, remember, he was the Twins 4th round pick, so yes, he went to the GCL and did OK. He then spent the next year at Elizabethton where he put up great numbers with Sano. He then played well at Beloit while learning a new position. The Twins always keep their young players in the Midwest League for the full year, including one Joe Mauer who advanced quite quickly the following season. So, the Twins have moved him up appropriately so far, and I think he can and will move up quickly in 2013. It's also normal for them to promoted several players right after the Florida State League All Star game in June.

Let's see how he does... I'm excited about him, but I've been following prospects for long enough to know that nothing can be assumed about any of them, and they'll get their promotions when they should.

Lots of good points here. Well delivered too. I like your opinions on Eddie. In my opinion, Eddie is an elite hitting prospect. His shortened 2012 numbers combined with his winter league stats tell me to believe in what he can do. I don't think he is Mauer-caliber at the plate, but he sure could move quickly if Dozier, et al cant handle it.

Based on your projections I think everyone is an elite prospect.

Originally Posted by kab21

Based on your projections I think everyone is an elite prospect.

Think what you want. Post what you want. I'll do the same. Try to enjoy your life, and not worry about disappointment too much.

mnfanlife - how long have you been following prospects? You have very interesting evaluations and expectations.

Originally Posted by mnfanforlife

Think what you want. Post what you want. I'll do the same. Try to enjoy your life, and not worry about disappointment too much.

I'm realistic in my expectations so I don't get disappointed.

Originally Posted by thrylos98

Kind of a detail, but not too many 3B prospects end up at 2B. Some end up at 1B or OF corners or DH. That's that.

I had Jedd Gyorko in mind.

I just realized baseball-reference is posting spring training numbers, including a Opposing Pitcher Quality metric

Eddie Rosario Minor League Statistics & History - Baseball-Reference.com