Thread: Dozier vs. Rosario

Originally Posted by Seth Stohs

How are you so certain that Rosario is ready offensively? Cuz he's hit well late in early spring training games? I believe in him completely, but it's not because of 8 spring at bats. Let him breathe.

He's hit well late in games against second tier pitching early in Spring Training when pitchers are rusty.

I love how well he's done but c'mon, people...

It's fun to speculate, but this feels a little like we're running barefoot through the tall grass of Fantasy Land. He's a great talent and we're excited about his potential, but we need to calm down about him being ready this September. I don't think we can comprehend the huge leap there is between each level. I hope we let him develop and learn (defensively and offensively) and hope he's ready for a 2014 September call-up.

I also have a hard time when we make the Trout comparisons. Trout is an other-worldly talent who was a plug-in plus defender and went on an absolute tear. Rosario is not Mike Trout on defense or offense. The vast majority of players in every organization take time to develop. The Mike Trouts or Bryce Harpers are extremely rare. (And neither of them had to learn 2B.)

I can't quite believe this is still a talking point 43 posts in, he wasn't even an actual ST invitee, that's how far off the radar he is for the big club right now.

Originally Posted by FrodaddyG

It really, really isn't.

Some can't imagine this, but it's not completely out-of-the-question. Won't happen, just like I said in the original post. Right player for that. Wrong organization for that.

Originally Posted by twinsnorth49

I can't quite believe this is still a talking point 43 posts in, he wasn't even an actual ST invitee, that's how far off the radar he is for the big club right now.

Thank you for your post. Ha. With another organization, he'd probably be in an MLB centerfield right now.

Originally Posted by Gene Larkin Fan Club

It's fun to speculate, but this feels a little like we're running barefoot through the tall grass of Fantasy Land. He's a great talent and we're excited about his potential, but we need to calm down about him being ready this September. I don't think we can comprehend the huge leap there is between each level. I hope we let him develop and learn (defensively and offensively) and hope he's ready for a 2014 September call-up.

I also have a hard time when we make the Trout comparisons. Trout is an other-worldly talent who was a plug-in plus defender and went on an absolute tear. Rosario is not Mike Trout on defense or offense. The vast majority of players in every organization take time to develop. The Mike Trouts or Bryce Harpers are extremely rare. (And neither of them had to learn 2B.)

Uh...yeah. The point of the thread is to point out that I'd rather see Rosario (who is not close to ready) struggle in Minnesota this year, than see Jamey Carroll and three AAA-ceiling talents get the opportunity ahead of Eddie. Its not difficult to comprehend the "huge leap" between each level. I mean, this isn't like traveling through interstellar space. What, exactly, is so tough to understand about the difference between A+ and AA and AAA baseball?

Originally Posted by mnfanforlife

Thank you for your post. Ha. With another organization, he'd probably be in an MLB centerfield right now.

um... no he wouldn't.

Originally Posted by FrodaddyG

It really, really isn't.

Eddie's obviously not making the team anytime soon, but a September call-up is not out of the realm of possiblity if he keeps hitting and shows improved defense. Arcia started the year in Ft. Myers last year and likely would have been a September call up had the Twins a need for a corner outfielder. The middle infield is much less stable, desperation has influenced this team to dip down to New Britain several times over the last couple of years.

Originally Posted by mnfanforlife

Thank you for your post. Ha. With another organization, he'd probably be in an MLB centerfield right now.

I call.

Originally Posted by mnfanforlife

Uh...yeah. The point of the thread is to point out that I'd rather see Rosario (who is not close to ready) struggle in Minnesota this year, than see Jamey Carroll and three AAA-ceiling talents get the opportunity ahead of Eddie. Its not difficult to comprehend the "huge leap" between each level. I mean, this isn't like traveling through interstellar space. What, exactly, is so tough to understand about the difference between A+ and AA and AAA baseball?

The point in people's response is that this makes no sense for Rosario much less the team's better business interests. If Eddie gets called up, he's likely not going to impress. He's going to have to do a ton of learning on the job that could be done slowly over a few years on a normal development curve. He might shine, but he's more likely to struggle mightly, and there's a very real possibility he doesn't recover. Not to mention that he only has a year of defense at his position (and didn't play it well). Do you really think Gardy is going to trot him out every day when he's making errors on routine plays? Do you think fans will suddenly develop patience for the guy when this happens?

There's a huge difference between A+ (where he should be) and MLB... for one, this will the first year he starts seeing MLB quality breaking pitches on a consistent basis.

Originally Posted by Seth Stohs

The only special invite WBC players in Twins camp are Rosario, Berrios and Albers. Stuifbergen has been training with Blyleven and the Netherlands team for a few weeks already. But, Beresford, Martis and Colabello and Deduno and Guerra are formal Non-Roster Invites.

The Twins will bring other minor leaguers to some big league games after they start camp next week, and once the Twins have sent a bunch of players down to minor league camp.

Stuifbergen is definitely not in Twins camp like you say. I chatted with him for a minute last weekend at a WBC warm up game in Taiwan. I was hoping to see him pitch but no dice. I also saw Blyleven but barely. He was in the 'get to the bus as fast as possible' mood. After all there was a mob of at least 20 Taiwanese that he had to plow through and it's likely that none of them had any idea who he was.

Originally Posted by mnfanforlife

Uh...yeah. The point of the thread is to point out that I'd rather see Rosario (who is not close to ready) struggle in Minnesota this year, than see Jamey Carroll and three AAA-ceiling talents get the opportunity ahead of Eddie. Its not difficult to comprehend the "huge leap" between each level. I mean, this isn't like traveling through interstellar space. What, exactly, is so tough to understand about the difference between A+ and AA and AAA baseball?

Really? There is a huge difference between A+ and MLB. Rosario would get destroyed at the MLB level and I think he's actually a really good prospect.

Originally Posted by mnfanforlife

Thank you for your post. Ha. With another organization, he'd probably be in an MLB centerfield right now.

Based on what? C'mon I appreciate your enthusiasm for Rosario and I am excited about him too but we're talking about a player who might not even see AA this year. What MLB team would be starting him in CF right now?

Originally Posted by mnfanforlife

What, exactly, is so tough to understand about the difference between A+ and AA and AAA baseball?

I don't know but you seem to be having a hard time with it.

Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave

I am stoked about his great 8 at bats, but lets be real..8 at bats mean next to nothing especially the first week of spring training! However this does get me more excited for 2014 and beyond!

It shows what he can do when he gets his pitch. That is a necessary ingredient for success at bat, and worth our being stoked about. Whether he can fare as well when he doesn't get his pitch as often, well, as you say, let's be real, and let's be patient if need be.

Originally Posted by kab21

Stuifbergen is definitely not in Twins camp like you say. I chatted with him for a minute last weekend at a WBC warm up game in Taiwan. I was hoping to see him pitch but no dice. I also saw Blyleven but barely. He was in the 'get to the bus as fast as possible' mood. After all there was a mob of at least 20 Taiwanese that he had to plow through and it's likely that none of them had any idea who he was.

Stuif is a really good guy, and I hope he gets a chance to start in the WBC this weekend. He's got a chance to be good, but he just has to stay healthy, and he knows it.

I think that a best-case scenario would be that he spends 2 to 2 1/2 months in Ft. Myers and dominates, then moves up to New Britain for the remainder of the season and puts up Arcia-like numbers. If he makes enough improvements defensively, the Twins could absolutely open up 2B for him to start next season, although (not to belabor the point), I'd still have him spend a month or two at AAA to start 2014 anyway. It's what the Twins did with Mauer (and he was a year younger, and they had to move an All-Star to make room for him). Unlike with Sano, I can see this being a very realistic path for Rosario.

If you're going to play Rosario, then why not Sano and Buxton? Heck, the latter two are more prepared to play their natural positions of 3B and CF than Rosario is ready to play 2B, where he shifted to last season.

Rosario is a talented guy, but he made a ton of errors while learning 2B last season. He belongs in the minor leagues, where his rough edges will not become an embarrassment in front of 25,000 fans per game. I would spare the young man these humiliations with a normal development time.

Meanwhile, the Twins have a serious logjam of talent in the outfield right now. If I were Ron Gardenhire I would seriously consider keeping both Aaron Hicks and Joe Benson up with the team to start the season. Given all the dubious and marginal talent on the pitching staff, it may come in handy to have available the 3FCFD (3 Fast Center Fielders Defense). With Masto, Hicks and Benson (Benson and the Jets?) out there, an awful lot of fly balls will get caught, and all three have arms that are either good or great. Thus we derive the equation: 3FCFD=FBOx3. If we extend the equation to include Willingham's role, we get
3FCFD+H@DH=FBO(n)+RBI(n), with n being a lot more than before.
By extending this equation to full bogosity, we can include all other possible DH possibilities, thus:
3FCFD+H, M1, M2, P, Dsub@DH=FBO(n)+RBI(n). Luckily, this is easy to understand.
Ten points for the first person to spot the Sheldon joke.

Originally Posted by ashburyjohn

It shows what he can do when he gets his pitch. That is a necessary ingredient for success at bat, and worth our being stoked about. Whether he can fare as well when he doesn't get his pitch as often, well, as you say, let's be real, and let's be patient if need be.

I particularly like that he is now playing in the notoriously tough FSL parks that he will be hitting in come opening day. If nothing else, hitting well in spring training should give him a ton of confidence heading into the games that count.

Originally Posted by mnfanforlife

Uh...yeah. The point of the thread is to point out that I'd rather see Rosario (who is not close to ready) struggle in Minnesota this year, than see Jamey Carroll and three AAA-ceiling talents get the opportunity ahead of Eddie. Its not difficult to comprehend the "huge leap" between each level. I mean, this isn't like traveling through interstellar space. What, exactly, is so tough to understand about the difference between A+ and AA and AAA baseball?

Evidently, it's difficult for some to understand the importance of development at the proper pace. If someone is moved too quickly, it can shatter confidence and hinder development. I think this why the Mike Trouts of the world are so rare. Very few are capable of making the leap that quickly...or do you believe that Eddie Rosario is at Trout's level? I wish that were so, but I'm guessing he is not. The Twins are not the only organization that develops players at a deliberate pace.